Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube - https://youtu.be/bP5p-Wjhg6A

Maggie Mills and Amy Graber are redefining traditional home physical therapy services. Their business Fit Family Physical Therapy offers direct pay, direct access, mobile physical therapy services for patients throughout the life span. Learn how this true family endeavor originated and the valuable entrepreneurial lessons learned along the way to building a successful business.

Transcript

Voiceover: So you're a PT or PTA grad who's feeling the spark of something more. Maybe you dream of building your own business, one that's constructed around your vision, one that empowers you to make a real difference on your terms. This feeling, it's the entrepreneurial itch. And you're not alone. Countless PTs and PTAs are taking the leap to entrepreneurship, crafting careers that are as unique as they are. 

Welcome to the Innovate and Rehabilitate the Entrepreneurial PT podcast. In each episode, we'll dive deep into the world of PT-preneurship with Inspiring physical therapists and physical therapist assistants just like you, who are crushing it on their terms. We'll uncover their secrets, their struggles, and the incredible impact they're making. From building your PT boss dreams to navigating the business side of things, will equip you with the knowledge and inspiration to turn your vision into reality.

So, whether you're just curious about starting your own business, or you're already out there making your dreams a reality, this podcast is for you. Get ready to unleash your inner entrepreneur. Let's do this!

Scott Giles (SG): My name is Scott Giles, and I'm the founder of Score Builders and your host for today's podcast. I want to extend a special welcome to today's guest, Maggie Mills and Amy Graber. Maggie and Amy are sisters who along with their other sister, Carrie, founded Fit Family Physical Therapy in 2021. Their business is a direct pay, direct access mobile physical therapy practice offering a broad range of services for patients throughout the entire lifespan. I'm extremely excited to talk to Maggie and Amy today since her business checks a lot of exciting boxes for me. Direct pay, mobile delivery, family business and female owned and operated. Maggie and Amy, welcome to the podcast.

Maggie Mills (MM) & Amy Graber (AG): Thank you. We're so excited to be here.

SG: Yeah, no, it's great. I really appreciate the time. And I should say, you know, the weird things happen like this all the time, but how I came to know about your super cool business is it one of our 43 Scorebuilders instructors who you know, as Holly, I don't think we're violating HIPAA there had a total knee replacement and discovered your really cool business. And so I sent out a general, our people are pretty well connected, they deal with a lot of people, they’ve been doing this for a long time. And so when we started this podcast, I sent something out to them saying, Hey, I'd love to hear any kind of entrepreneurs that you folks are familiar with that you think would be good for the show. And they came up with you folks right away and we reached out and here we are today. So again, small world, but I'm really happy that you folks joined us. 

So let's let's jump in. But, before we get into the business details, maybe you could both tell me how you happen to be become physical therapist and how you decide to pursue that as an educational pursuit.

AG: Sure. Honestly, the story's similar for both of us, but I'll go 1st and then I'll let Maggie sort of add in her own nuances. But we both grow up playing competitive soccer at a pretty high level and spent most of our time either at soccer practice or at a sort of gym, which was a physical therapy clinic. And so we had our fair share of injuries and playing sports, of course, but we had just spent so much time around the physical therapists and the staff there. Both of us kind of came to really love the profession and appreciate the profession. And I think we both always generally had an interest in in sort of the science and Physiology aspect of, you know, studies. And so that took us there as well. And then both played soccer in college and sort of again, had our fair share of injuries there and spent more time around physical therapy clinic. And I'll, I'll let Maggie kind of take it from there.

MM: Yeah, we, like Amy said, we've been around it for a long time. And this was, it felt like a very natural progression for us. We love being in a competitive athletic world. We love working with different types of people and this was a way that we could continue to do that after finishing kind of our athletic careers, so to speak.

SG: OK, no, that's great. And they're being very humble, but this is like big time soccer. This is like PAC12, D1 soccer. So you guys are studs is which you didn't want to say, but I thought I'd bring that up because you don't get to that level without some serious dedication. And of course, like you both said, some serious injuries associated with that. OK, so, but, but so obviously you guys come full circle back together and Carrie gets involved in this. But you folks are, did you graduate three years apart in terms of the physical therapy program?

AG: Yes, three years. So never actually spent enough, any crossover years. Maggie left just as I was entering. OK, so Maggie, tell us where you went kind of what you what you were involved in. And then Amy, I'm going to jump in when you when you when you get out of school and then how you guys eventually came together.

MM: OK, Yeah. So I started immediately out of school in a pediatric practice. Amy and I, while also being competitive together, loving competitive athletes. We also have a pretty big love of Pediatrics and kids. So that felt like a really natural place for me to start. I then transitioned to a fast-paced ortho clinic where my boss allowed me also to see Pediatrics. It's obviously a little bit of a different model. So to be able to work in both was really, it was great of him to let me do that, to gain the experience. And then I actually transitioned when I had my first kiddo to a direct pay service through another company. And then once my sisters went back to here, then we kind of got the band together and started our own business. But I'll let Amy talk and then we can kind of share the details of that.

SG: Great.

AG: Yeah. So I, as soon as I exited school, I got a job in the sights of one of my clinical rotations. So I was also an outpatient Pediatrics and I worked there for about a year and then my husband and I moved out of state, out of Arizona to California, for him to complete his residency. And so while I was there, I felt like I didn't quite want to pigeonhole myself yet in Pediatrics and really wanted to still build on my orthopedic skills. So took a job in outpatient private practice, orthopedics and then did that for a few years and then wanted to get my feet back into Pediatrics again. So took a home health pediatric job. And then we both decided we wanted to move back to Arizona, be close to family. And it was sort of the stars aligning. We had a decision to make in terms of was I going to look for a job there? And instead I sort of, you know, we all sort of petitioned each other that maybe this was the right time to try and start a business together. It was just a natural time in all of our lives. Carrie, our sister who helps us run the practice, does most of the operations, was leaving sort of corporate jobs. She was ready to have her first kid. Maggie was sort of at a crossroads too, in terms of, you know, she had been at this, this other practice for a little while and then I was moving back. So I'll let Maggie sort of speak a little bit more about what the wheels, you know, what set the wheels really in motion and how we got going with all of that. But in short terms, it was just the time was right and we were all ready and sort of the stars aligned. It was now or never realistically with what our family paths were going to be in the future.

SG: That that's really interesting. So Maggie, so now look, you so you said with well, first of all, a couple things. One is that I think it's really interesting that you guys are big time athletes and or you know, you tend to think ortho, ortho, ortho and you both end up in Pediatrics, which I love, right? I mean, that's, I think that's super cool number one. But Maggie, you when you one of your jobs, you had a lot of experience with direct pay. So was it, was that always the plan or did you, was there any talk about a traditional physical therapy practice or like were you kind of the ringleader in terms of bringing these folks together being like, hey guys, I, I think we could do it with this model or how did that go down?

MM: I really think it was all of us. Yes, I think I was kind of the voice of this is what I have been doing. This is what has worked. This is what has maybe not worked. I think I am probably the least risk taker of the group. So I probably would have never done it by myself. So Amy and Carrie were also huge in that Carrie, you know, Amy, Amy and I say we couldn't have done it if we didn't have Carrie because Carrie is quite literally the brains behind, you know, a lot of our marketing, a lot of our website, all of our customer relations, you know, the initial customer relations. So everyone kind of brought their own piece to it. And I feel like they gave me the push. I came in with the experience of like I said, kind of this is what has worked, this does not work, this is what we'd like to do differently, which obviously is valuable.

SG: Yeah, sure. So Amy, you said that Carrie was involved in corporate and I think in one of our previous discussions you might have said she was involved with some start-ups. Could you, could you just elaborate a little bit more on her kind of business background background because obviously this ends up being a critical piece to the to the try Alliance here. 

AG: Yeah, she so she had a short stint in in the corporate world, consulting type world right after college. And then a friend of hers from college started in basically as a sort of a buy back of old electronics business. And they started just extremely humble beginnings and grew to a really successful startup within five years. It was very fast growing. So Carrie sort of had the experience of just a lot thrown at her at once. And she was from the get go the operation COO, you know, chief operations officer. And so she just had experience with the insurance and outs of client relations, you know, marketing financial information. 

I feel like, you know, Maggie and I of course have our doctorate degrees in physical therapy, but sometimes the one thing that's missing from a professional education is sort of the business aspect. And I think, you know, in, in working in various practices before we had the luxury or, or I should say the interest in how these operations were run and what was successful and what was working. But the again, to speak to what Maggie said, there's, there's zero way that we could have made this happen without Carrie's knowledge. You know, maybe there was a way, but it would have, would have not has been successful as it was in the beginning, and it would have taken a lot more trial and error.

There are things that just feel so comfortable to us because of Carrie's background and knowledge. And she really, I think it's mostly her confidence in the business operations that really helps us, you know, feel confident in what we can do to bring the patients.

SG: That's great. And I think Carrie’s playing an important role today, correct?

AG: Yeah.

SG: Child take care of all the kiddos, right? Yeah, that's right. I love the alliance. So, look, this gets tricky, right? I mean, having partners in any business, especially a new business, can be tricky. But having family members, I mean, look, that's, that's their pros and cons to that. So was there any trepidation, you know, with, I mean, obviously you guys are very close, you wouldn't even consider this, right? But being close doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be good business partners. So I'd like to hear a little bit about that and also I'd like to hear what your parents thought about this idea when it was pitched to them, just because, you know, I mean, the most important thing as a parent of three children myself, is that all our kids are copacetic and get along and love each other. And you know, this is kind of a high stress kind of deal. So so how did that go over?

MM: So as far as far as with our parents, it went over well. They are very confident in us. They might have made a few kind of suggestions here and there, but my dad has owned his own business for a very long time building custom homes. My mom has her own business kind of on the side of her daily job. So they're very, you know, comfortable in that aspect. And it's helped, you know, they've even given some advice in some areas. And then I'll let Amy speak to the other part.

SG: OK.

AG: Yeah. You know, if you would have asked us this question 10 years ago when we were still a little less mature and maybe not quite as established in our family, you know, roles and careers as well, that question might have been answered differently. But I think at the time we were starting this business, one of the, the very critical things we did at the very beginning was to sit down and say what do we want all, what do we want out of this business? And you know, we're three different individuals, but the, it was very clear that we had the same goals since starting the business. And I think the same values behind, you know, patient care and client interactions, you know, 'cause Carrie’s not directly involved in patient care, but it, that part honestly made it easier because we, we knew we had this level of trust and that the people we were working with shared the same values. 

There are of course, nuances and tricky parts of working with family, but you know, it's almost easier sometimes to deal with conflict because we've been dealing with conflict as sisters our, our whole life. Sometimes it's trickier to deal with people you aren't as familiar with, and you have to be more skilled and tactful in how you deal. But quite honestly, we, we don't have a lot of conflict. We really respect each other's roles and what each offers and brings to the table. And I think all of us know that without each one of us on the team, we wouldn't be able to create this business. And so I do think that we sort of stay in our lanes and respect each other and we're pretty good communicators, I would say. So it the the story isn't as, you know, exciting as it sounds, but it, it actually works out pretty well.

SG: Yeah, it definitely doesn't sound like there's going to be a reality show based on this. And but I think that's that is a positive thing. So good for you folks for being that close. That's beautiful.

All right, so let's get into the business a little bit like, because I think your model is pretty unique. The type of the lifespan that you see is unique. You know, I think you're kind of trying to redefine traditional Home Care Services to some extent. And that's not suggesting that Home Care Services are don't offer tremendous quality, but I think your approach is a little bit different. And I, I came away from our kind of pre meeting, you know, really impressed with the commitment to excellence, what you look for and the providers you bring on etcetera.

So maybe maybe you could both talk a little bit about the scope of the business and kind of what it's been like for you to kind of put your stamp on the quality piece of this.

MM: I can go first.

SG: Amy, why don't you jump? Okay, sure, sure, yes.

MM: So we came into this wanting to provide a level of care that we felt like we truly were not seeing in the home care arena. Like you, we've talked about, we have humongous ortho backgrounds, not just from our work, but from what we've done in the past. And we really, in the case of a lot of patients, wanted to be able to bring a more functional dynamic treatment style to the home. We strongly felt like people appreciated the convenience of home care, but were often left wanting for a little bit more as far as their return to, you know, recreational activity, hiking, walking for longer distances. Pickleball is really big here. So that's a really common one. So that's, that's truly what we set out to do. We truly our goal is to bring the ortho area to to the home. We bring in equipment, we bring in Bosus, we bring in TRX straps. So we have some weights, we have weighted balls. So we really try to make sure that when you are done with us, you are ready to go back to whatever activity that you were doing. And it's not necessarily a transition to outpatient ortho at that time.

AG: Yeah. You know, I think one word we use all the time is as sort of buzzword is we are very functional in our, you know, exercise, prescription intervention, instruction, all of those things are very important to us. When we walk in the door, we're asking right away what their goals are in again, there's they're tremendous home health companies that provide physical therapy and home. 

One thing I find sometimes that's lacking is just that that sort of last bit of transition from just getting someone from daily life ADLs to the, you know, the getting back to wanting to play 3 rounds of golf in a weekend. There's quite a stark contrast between those two levels of function and I, we sort of felt like that's what was missing in the home atmosphere. And often it was just sort of passed along to the orthopedic clinic or private practice clinic, you know, any type of orthopedic based outpatient site. So that was something we thought we could bring to the table. 

You know, we are both very fortunate in our PT school education is was very neuro based actually. And so we have a lot of, you know, balance and gait activities that we can do with clients in home too, that are a lot more dynamic than maybe the typical ones that we would see in a home health practice. So that was sort of our, our niche in a way is bringing the function and dynamic atmosphere into the home environment.

And like Maggie said, I, I really think that's been well received by patients and sort of unexpected, but in a positive way.

SG: No, that's great. And I would think the Pediatrics also, I know, you know, I'm not sure about your geographic region, but in our area there's a real shortage of home care, physical therapy services for preschool individuals or even individuals slightly older than that. And having you both have experience in that, that's, I'm sure that must have helped get the practice off the ground a little bit in terms of something unique that you folks offered.

MM: Yes, definitely. That's kind of the other part that we can speak to is the pediatric like you talked about here, there's just there's not a lot of options for as big of a city that we currently live in or metropolitan area. And you know, we have a heavy seasonal load here. So kind of as you kick into September, October, and I have patients that call and sometimes they say they're calling on a say eight week old baby and it could be 6 to 8 weeks before they're even going to be able to be seen consistently. So for us in the pediatric world a little bit, it's about breaking down these barriers to getting quicker care.

And often times in babies with some of your more typical, you know, orthopedic type complaints or developmental delay type complaints, quicker care often means a quicker length of care, quicker return to, you know, not needing physical therapy. So for us, that's trying to kind of break down that more insurance based model that's, you know, you're going to be seen once a week and it's going to take six months. So we really try to try to get them in quicker. We try to give more onus to the parents as far as these are the exercises you can do inside your own house. And I feel like in the parent world that is super helpful for them because I could do all kinds of exercises in a clinic, but if they don't know how to implement them in their own house, there's just a much bigger obstacle to them actually doing them. So we feel like in a couple ways, we've been trying to kind of find a carve a little niche that's not just care as we've seen it in the pediatric world.

SG: That's great. And Amy, you mentioned the your school doing a really good job on the on the neuro side especially, and we should mention that's Northern Arizona University. So you guys are shining examples of the graduates. So that, so that's, that's wonderful to hear. 

What are the patients attitudes towards? And again, you're in a very metropolitan area. So I don't know how much saturation there is in direct pay clinics, but I still think in most areas we're on the very kind of front end of that. How is it? Has there been a lot of resistance from patients or, or I mean, again, you're, it's a little bit different too, because now you're collecting money or funds from them. And then also, you know, you have numerous physical therapists who are working for you and so you're also having to pitch, you know, physical therapists on, you know, you've got to find quality people that you folks are compatible with and you think can deliver the quality of care that you'd like to administer. 

How is how is direct pay made that what's that transition bed like from the patient perspective and from your fellow coworkers?

AG: From a patient perspective, you know, I would say if we're looking at leads that come in, I, I would say it's about 50/50 in terms of, you know, people are interested in it or they are not. And there's still a, a very large population that wants to utilize insurance-based care. And that was sort of a mindset that we had to be comfortable with going into this practice. This is not going to be for everyone, and we can't get discouraged when we have people that are wanting to utilize insurance-based care. If that was the case, we wouldn't have lasted long because it it's still a very prominent model in today's physical therapy world in in most of the medical world. And so this was something we had to be comfortable with that our services were not going to be for everyone, but we needed to find a way to reach those patients who were interested in and saw the value in it. 

On the other end of the spectrum, the one kind of nice thing about direct access and direct pay is that a lot of the patients finding us are actually coming directly to us. They're not being referred by a physician. And many of them are therefore searching for private pay or direct pay services because they want the convenience of the in home physical therapy. So in that sense there's already a little bit of buy in which is, you know, makes the initial evaluation a little bit easier I will say, because they're expecting that level of quality of care. 

I think the hard part, you know, or the challenging part and the part that we really have had to get skilled in is sort of selling the model for continued physical therapy. You know, what is that going to look like for the patient who is perhaps used to the three times a week for four weeks model that that you might see an insurance outpatient-based clinic. A lot of the times we are heavy on the home instruction so that patients don't have to utilize private pay so often for visits, but we can get the same amount of, you know, outcomes that we desire in a shorter amount of visits. And that actually translates to quite a positive attitude among our clients. 

So I'll let Maggie speak to sort of how we have to educate our contractors and find our contractors for in this model, but that's sort of our patience attitudes. I hope that answers the question there.

SG: No, that's great. And Maggie, just one other thing, if you could add to your answer here, because I thought was super interesting because when we talked earlier, because I, I feel there's some, I don't know, I think it's a misconception. There's some people feel like some therapists feel like, oh yeah, you just put out a shingle, you put out your sign and, you know, direct pay and people just start flocking in. And you talked a little bit about some of the early marketing processes, you know, to see physicians and that process as well. So I don't, you know, I, I, I want to give people a realistic look at some of the battle scars that you folks have from this as well. So not just recruiting therapist, but if you could just touch on the marketing part of it because it's not for the faint of heart.

MM: No, it's not for the faint of heart. And we are about three years in and we still, it's still a little bit of a battle, especially when you're trying to branch out to some new ones. Amy and Carrie actually went marketing maybe a couple weeks ago to a new couple of concierge practices and it was, it was unsuccessful. That is pretty much the only word for it. So it is, it is a lot of trial and error. Our initial strategy was a lot of boots on the ground going into offices kind of cold calling, if you will, by either calling and trying to set up a lunch or going in and offering to, you know, again, set up a lunch or bring coffee, something like that. And I, Amy, I don't know what would our success rate be maybe 25% if that. So it does, it's a lot of it. It's, it's a lot of work and we are constantly trying to reevaluate how we can be more successful. Our more recent strategies have been focusing a little bit more on, you know, SEO and website optimization 'cause we feel like that's kind of where we're getting more of the direct to consumer marketing. But it is, no, it's not for the faint of the heart at all. 

And then as far as sorry, what was the other one you wanted? 

SG: Just in terms of attracting because what's your staff look like now and how did you get those folks on board?

MM: Right. Yes, so we have hired over probably what Amy the last 18 months or so, two years we've hired a couple of contractors. Amy and Carrie and I are the only employees in the business. And then we've hired contractors to help us either fill a niche, a different niche than Amy and I can fill or fill a different area that again we can't get to or overlap with our area if it's a busy area. That again takes a lot of wedding through wedding through resumes, going through interviews, having discussions about how we, you know what we think you know, based on XY and Z. But we, we have successfully hired 4, 5 contractors now that have been with us and we are super, super thrilled with all of them. 

We, it is a different model like we talked about to go in and to have to sell yourself a bit and your quality of care than the insurance-based model. So we've looked a lot for people that a have experience treating patients. We really make an effort, not make an effort. That's not the right word, but we, we want them to have experience in treating initially we say kind of at least hopefully a year and a half if not more than that before we even want to really even do an interview. Because if you're not comfortable in how you treat, you're going to have a hard time selling why someone paying directly for that is, is going to be beneficial for them more than just your standard home health where they can use insurance.

SG: Right, yeah. I think there is a different bar expectation from the the patients as well because it is it really is a concierge service, right And you're not going to I mean it's like a hotel, right? You're not going to go spend $400.00 a night at a hotel and have inferior service, you know, you know, not nice rooms, not nice amenities, etcetera. You're expecting big things when you're putting that kind of money down, right? But it is interesting too because I mean some of the limits on number of visits through traditional insurance and some of these copayments are getting out of control. So if you can more effective, like, like Amy, you said this earlier, if you can more effectively manage, you know, the number of visits, get similar outcomes and half the visits by the time you factor in the, the copayments and, and deductibles and everything else associated with it. I mean, it can really be cost effective depending on the, you know, the person's unique, unique situation.

So I think in some ways that makes the argument easier or more palatable to the patient when they really sit down and look at, you know, the numbers. And I, I think we're going to see more and more of that kind of continuing in the future. 

So, and by the way, I want to tell people this because I asked this question, because I always want to know these things. I, I, I asked them, look, is there another sibling? Because I always feel bad. I feel like this is the Jonas Brothers, right? But one of the Jonas Brothers, I don't even know about the Jonas Brothers, but maybe this is Jonas Brother who's not part of the band or didn't have talent OR like whatever. And I'm happy to tell all the listeners that there are three siblings and they're all in. So that's pretty awesome 'cause I don't know, that would pump me out for some reason, but I'm, I'm super happy that that's the case. So anyways, in case.

AG: Yeah, we didn't leave anyone out. 

SG: Yeah, I love that. All right. So look, you're a female owned and operated business, which I also love, which we we're really trying to focus as many of, of that type of business on the show. But anything unique from that perspective, I mean, you know, I would hope in today's day and age that's really not the case. But were there any special challenges or do you guys have any mentorship or anything that maybe would be helpful for aspiring entrepreneurs to know in, in terms of, in terms of that type of ownership? 

AG: You know, we, we sort of talked about this together anticipating that this might be a question, but physical therapy is sort of transitioning to a, to a higher population of females. And so in some ways the expectation it when we are marketing or doing any community activities is that I think people now expect females almost. So sometimes it's a leg up. 

What I would say, and I don't know if we did this consciously or unconsciously when we started the business knowing that we're three females is, you know, in our initial sort of just trying to build relationships phase with community partners or physicians, we did tend to gravitate towards other female either practice owners or community business owners. And I think we built sort of a solid network of females in the beginning. Of course we still spent the time and, and spoke to male physicians and male business owners, but I do think that there was a little bit of camaraderie there that just helped boost confidence. 

In terms of, you know, whether we've had any challenges. You know, maybe here and there, there, there are sometimes that we've had to sort of assert ourselves a little more firmly to people who, who are expecting a male in our place. But in, in starting a business, I, I want to be transparent in saying that, you know, the, the playing field is, is relatively level because you, you really start from ground zero and it's, it's a lot of work regardless of who you are. I think the most important quality, you know, is, is how much you're willing to, to fail and problem solve and to challenge yourself to step outside of, you know, what you're comfortable with. And you know that that doesn't change whether you're a female or male. And I think that, you know, that was something at least we were all prepared for and helped us. So that would be my, my advice.

But other than that, I feel like, you know, we've been fortunate in that we've been well respected in our community and the network of providers that we've spoken to too now it's great.

SG: It's obvious that kind of work you folks do. And I, I'm sure, you know, as your business continues, a lot of your business, I would imagine, is word of mouth. And that's, that's the best kind of referral source you can possibly ever get. So that's wonderful as well. 

All right, So look, you guys are crazy. Carrie's crazy. You all have a gaggle of children. You have spouses. I don't even know what number a gaggle is, but you know what I mean. You guys are busy. Yeah, you're busy. You're crazy busy. And I'm sure your kids are as active as you were when you were young. So how's this worked out? Better, worse, the same in terms of work life balance for family life, for your spouses. Tell, tell me about that.

MM: I think it depends on the day. I no, it's, it's been fantastic. I think it depends on the day for any of us, if we could tell you if our work life balance is better, worse. We've also added children to the equation, more children each of us as we've done this. So obviously that plays a humongous role. But in general, in comparison to your standard orthopedic practice, your standard pediatric practice, it has improved our work life balance. We have flexibility to be home with our children. We have flexibility if we have to kind of switch up the day that we're treating and we're working with family. So like we talked about you don't we all pitch in at different points. In fact, I think I have to see some extra patients this week and Amy's going to help me with my youngest who's not in full time school yet. 

So as far as that goes, that's helped significantly. However, I would say running a business adds kind of a different layer to it that you find yourself kind of working in in the margins a little bit more. We meet, you know, a couple times a month via Zoom at night after our kids go to bed. You know, we have to respond to text messages a little bit faster. But I really feel like that's you're going to get that no matter what kind of business you have when you own your own business. And I think for us, the payoff is, is worth it. And the eventual, you know, the ceiling is higher for us as far as more flexibility, you know, having more contractors to assist us. So for us, I, I speak for myself, I do think it's worth it. I'm sure Amy and Carrie feel the same. But it, there's a, there's a balance to it. There's some give and take, definitely.

SG: That's great. Go ahead, Amy.

AG: Yeah, I would say that it's sort of shifted the area of stress where I used to feel stress was seeing 25 plus patients a day in an orthopedic environment. And that felt overwhelming to me to the point where I would get home and I was so burnt out. I couldn't enjoy the relationships that I had, you know, at home and transparently. And so this has a shifted the stress in a sense. But when I am with patients, I tell people that is the most fun, engaging part of our job. And it doesn't feel stressful. I don't feel pressed for time. And so in that sense, my, my, you know, my mental health in that sense is so much better. There's certainly times where we feel stressed about task lists and things that need to be accomplished because you're always trying to grow. You're always trying to succeed if you're out there starting a business. 

But at the end of the day, there are opportunities that we have because we started this business and being with our families and being able to be with our kids for a greater portion of the week that we would not be afforded in a full-time position elsewhere. And so I think that was one of the reasons we all wanted to start this business and that was one of our whys and it has come to fruition in that sense. 

So yes, we work in the margins a lot more. You find the 20 minutes here and there to bang out a to do list item, but it's certainly better in my opinion overall. And it's a new challenge that's exciting. And it's a different part of our brains that we get to utilize every day. And that really contributes to a positive atmosphere too, for us.I think too.

SG: And I like that term actually. I haven't heard that. I was just gonna say working in the margins, that's perfect. I mean, it really is, right. And sometimes those margins get kind of wide sometimes owning a business, right.

MM: We would also be super remiss if we did not point out the fact that our husbands, the three of them have been incredibly supportive and we realized that we a little bit of luck or good fortune to be able to do this as our husbands all have very stable jobs that allowed us to kind of take the risk to start and build and grow something like this. So we wouldn't be here without them. So I'll say that.

SG: No, that's great. It's good you said that because you know they're going to be listening. So that that's also, that's also super helpful. But you're right, I mean, that's that that's huge. And that kind of relates to this kind of last question. It's my favorite podcast is how I built this. And one of the questions that the host always asks folks is when reflecting on your business, how, how much your success do you attribute to luck and how much you know to intelligence and hard work? 

And you've certainly mentioned some of the, I think you've mentioned a lot of both, quite frankly, right, That you were in a position where the risk didn't seem crazy because you had supporter spouses, you had some funding available from yourself, from your spouses, whatever probably the most important thing, right, as you had supportive spouses that were willing for you to take on this venture. And I think, you know, flexibility becomes even more critical as the, as the children become older and that that never goes away. And I think that's one of the reasons why therapists really look to entrepreneurial activities because it does provide that. 

But you've also provided really clear examples of the grind that you folks have put into this. And obviously you're very intelligent. You just tell by, you know, listening to you, but I don't know what do you, where do you think that balance is? 50/50? Do you think it's 75% hard work, 25% fortune? What do you think?

AG: I probably, I don't know, I don't, I'd probably say it's more of a shift between maybe 60/40. The, the risk taking, you know, is a big piece of it. And that's always my advice to people who ask about starting their own business, you know, right out of school is Are you ready to assume that risk? You know, if you look at Maggie and Carrie and I, we, we were all at least 5, 5 years at the minimum out of school before we started this business. And so we had pretty well established, you know, financial security even just on our end. And then we also had spouses. So that piece is, is some of that is luck and fortune. You know, not everyone has that that luxury of financial security in this day and age, especially sometimes with the cost of education. But I would say that, you know, still a good 60% of it is hard work. 

And as we've mentioned here, it's it just as you said, Scott, it's not like we just opened the doors and business flowed in. You know, we're very transparent with people that we're three years in and what you see on the outside may not look like what you see in our text thread at the end of the night. So it's there's always there's always stuff that we have to troubleshoot and be willing to problem solve about. But yeah, you know, we're very honest that we do have the luxury of financial security in that sense that we had both worked for all of all three of us had worked for a while and also had spouses. So and also childcare, which is huge, you know, an expense that could go on and on about.

SG: Oh yeah, believe me, yeah.

MM: And I would say to speak to a little bit of a different aspect of it as far as kind of the maybe the marketing goes, I would say for us sometimes luck or knowing someone, you know, we grew up here in the Scottsdale area, so we felt like we had a pretty wide network. So maybe knowing someone got us, you know, a conversation with a doctor or a conversation with a referral coordinator. But we feel like hard work, our quality of care and the product we've put out has kind of kept us in that conversation, you know, year after year, if that makes sense. 

SG: It makes total sense. Well, ladies, thank you so much for, you know, joining us today. I love this. I love the family part of it. I mean, there's, I don't know, I, I hope you appreciate that for as much as it is, I mean, there aren't a ton of families where the three siblings could, could integrate. It's clear the love you, you have for each other. And, and you know, you're fortunate that you all have skills, you know, really meaningful skills that allow you to do this as well. And I also think mom and dad got to get a lot of credit here because you don't raise children like this and at that. So kudos. I don't know your mom and dad, but kudos to your mom and dad. Kudos to you folks. And I and I certainly wish you continued success. And I, I appreciate your sharing your story with our listeners today.

MM: Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

AG: Thank you so much. We really love this chat and excited to hear kind of the other guests you guys have on here. It's fun. It's a great idea.

SG: Well, thank you and thanks for getting Holly back to pickleball because I if you didn't, I don't know what you know, I don't know what would happen. But anyways.

MM: The world might end.

SG: Yeah, exactly. But but well done on that. So thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in.

I hope you enjoyed this story as as much as I did, and we'll see you for our next podcast.

Voiceover: And there you have it. Another dose of PT-preneurial inspiration to fuel your journey. Check out more inspiring stories from PTs and PTAs out there making waves by listening and subscribing to our podcasts on your favorite streaming platforms. And don't forget to rate and review this podcast. Thanks for listening.