Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube - https://youtu.be/j8-Hv6_QzBk
Jonathan Adams decided to pursue a degree in physical therapy at Thomas Jefferson University after a distinguished career as a pilot in the United States Air Force and a manager at a tech company. While working in a pro bono clinic, he identified the need for affordable clinical tools that would minimize the negative impact of language barriers when developing and implementing home exercise programs. This insight led him and classmate Jeff Sass to create TheraXPro (www.theraxpro.com). Join us as Jonathan shares his entrepreneurial journey and the story behind TheraXPro.
Transcript
Voiceover: So you're a PT or PTA grad who's feeling the spark of something more. Maybe you dream of building your own business, one that's constructed around your vision, one that empowers you to make a real difference on your terms. This feeling, it's the entrepreneurial itch. And you're not alone. Countless PTs and PTAs are taking the leap to entrepreneurship, crafting careers that are as unique as they are.
Welcome to Innovate and Rehabilitate: the Entrepreneurial PT podcast. In each episode, we'll dive deep into the world of PT-preneurship with Inspiring physical therapists and physical therapist assistants just like you, who are crushing it on their terms. We'll uncover their secrets, their struggles, and the incredible impact they're making. From building your PT boss dreams to navigating the business side of things, will equip you with the knowledge and inspiration to turn your vision into reality.
So, whether you're just curious about starting your own business, or you're already out there making your dreams a reality, this podcast is for you. Get ready to unleash your inner entrepreneur. Let's do this!
Scott Giles (SG): My name is Scott Giles and I'm the founder of Scorebuilders and your host for today's podcast. I want to extend a special welcome to today's guest, Jonathan Adams. Jonathan is the CEO and Co-founder of TheraXPro and a full-time outpatient physical therapist at the Cantrell Center in Georgia.
His diverse career began with a tenure in the United States Air Force where he enlisted in 2004. He was selected for officer training school and accepted into the undergraduate pilot training. Jonathan's Air Force career culminated in piloting the J Stars and MQ 9 Reaper aircraft. Following his military service, he transitioned briefly into a role as a program manager for a tech company. Driven by a passion for helping others, he later pursued a doctorate in physical therapy at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia. Soon after beginning the physical therapy program, Jonathan and his classmate Jeff Sass identified that language barriers were negatively impacting their effectiveness when treating patients out of pro bono clinic. This single observation was a spark that inspired the creation of TheraXPro. Jonathan, welcome to the podcast.
Jonathan Adams (JA): Thanks, Scott. I appreciate it.
SG: Absolutely. And let me begin by thanking you for your service to our country. It's truly amazing. So thank you. Now, look, you have a fantastic story to tell today. And not trying to inflate your ego here, but you are a great storyteller. So I want to, I want to jump right into I want to jump right into the good stuff.
So your path to physical therapy, in my opinion, was very different than a than a typical student. In other words, entering the military, deciding to fly jets, briefly jumping into the corporate world, and then as very much a non-traditional student decided to pursue a degree in physical therapy, which is no small undertaking. So tell me about this evolution. What how did this come to be?
JA: Well, at first, I think I just get bored easy, right? That's probably how a lot of it starts because even before I was in the military, I didn't know that that was my plan. You know, I was, I was selling timeshares. So anyway, yeah, long story short, I joined the military, enlisted, I, you know decide, hey, I want to make more out of my career. So a lot of this happened by just constantly pursuing things and preparing myself for something that I didn't know what was going to happen.
So it worked the same way that, you know, I started enlisted and then I thought, hey, there's an opportunity to make more money, do some cool things. I just kept applying and then all of a sudden, I ended up, you know, in pilot school and went through that. And then, you know, I transitioned out of the military 2017 and I was like, hey, let's see, who wants a old military guy? And so I just, you know, again, went to some different job careers and things like that. And it turns out in my home state of Pennsylvania, there was someone looking for a program manager role. And I was like, sure, let me give that a try.
In the meantime though, I had earned my Masters in Health Science. And because I was just always interested in, I did personal training on the side while I was in the military. And so it was kind of always a passion of mine regardless of whether I was flying or whatever. And so quite frankly, I was sitting there in a cubicle and it was like breaking up with an old girlfriend. It's not you, it's me. I was bored out of my mind, fidgeting, burning holes in the rug, you know, walking back and forth, you know, my fellow employees are looking at me like, what's wrong with you? And I was like, I just, I got to move.
So the VA gave me a call one day and said, hey, you know, are you happy with your current career? And I said, well, it's not that I'm not happy with it. I just, I got to do something else. And so, you know, they said, well, you know, go talk to one of our career counselors. So I did. They ended up approving me for just about anything I wanted to do school wise. I chose physical therapy because it was just something I thought that I would enjoy. And I guess the rest is kind of history.
SG: That's amazing. So, what was it like now entering, you know, school as someone with some real life experiences? And, you know, not to suggest that other people who went to physical therapy have no life experiences, but let's be honest, your life experiences at this point are very different than the typical students. So what was that like in terms of the integration? And then I know that very first day in class you kind of had that conversation with Jeff. So if you could touch on that is what it's a really cool part of your story.
JA: Yeah. Well, I actually had to go for some pre-reqs first, right. So I had nine months of pre-reqs. And the first day I walk in, I have this chemistry class and a girl comes up to me and she goes, are you the professor? And I went, oh, I am, I am, I am old. So that was kind of my introduction to that journey. And, you know, you kind of just got used to it.
So yeah. So I got all that done very first day. I go in and there's this auditorium there, little mini auditorium at Thomas Jefferson. And, you know, I'm like 25 minutes early because that's just how it is. And so I go in and there's already this guy sitting there in the front row. And at first I thought, you know, is he the professor? Because he's, you know, mid 30s, I think, or early 30s. So I thought maybe he's the professor. And so I go up to him and I thought, no, he can't be the professor because he's got a tattoo of a knife on his arm, you know, and so I look at him and I was like, hey, I said, you know, that's a, that's a nice tattoo you got there. I said, I bet there's a story behind there. And he just looks at me directly in the eyes and he goes, you know, one of these days I'm going to manipulate your neck. And that's how we became fast friends. That was Jeff Sass.
SG: That’s usually when I turn and run.
JA: Yeah, I thought I got to get to know this guy. And turns out, you know, I thought maybe he's ex-military. No, he was, he was an ex-chef and that was that was a chef's knife. So there I was, you know, I was old military. He was an executive chef for 10 years. And we sat down and got to know each other and turns out we were the oldest two in the class. And that was one of the things we kind of bonded over.
SG: That's amazing. And, and wasn't there a comment or someone made either you or Jeff during that that was actually kind of that, you know, suggested maybe you'd be working together on a business at some point?
JA: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things like I think there's just something unique about having the two of us with the kind of history that we had. We had a lot of our classmates. So, you know, say things like, what are you guys doing here? You should be running your, you know, an own business or, you know, just little, little things like that. And it's interesting because, like, I'm a big, I'm a big Dave Ramsey fan. And one of the things he says when you're searching for your career is just pay attention to what everyone else is telling you, whether you believe it or not. And then kind of start picking up on those cues. And I just started thinking like, yeah, why aren't we doing something like that?
SG: OK, that's great. I love the. And obviously, again, I mean, with your military background coming at it from a little bit of a different angle, I'm sure maybe your, your lens was a little broader and wider in terms of what you would take in. And again, someone like me who was just right out of high school and, and jumped into, you know, an undergraduate physical therapy program.
All right, So then you're in class, you start to get into clinical work and you identify a problem. Let's talk about that.
JA: Yeah. We were at a pro bono clinic in Philadelphia, and the vast majority of the population we were treating there was Spanish, and none of us spoke Spanish. And so without getting into too much detail, what was happening is we were having to call on a telephone. So we were having to pick up a physical telephone. Right. Call, obviously a physical telephone. And we were supposed to call this translator. This translator, Then we had to connect to our patient on the other side. And so I was speaking in what I would want the patient to do. They were trying to translate it and then tell the patient, you know, literally in front of me and this translator, they weren't a physical therapist, they weren't even medical related. They were just trying to translate. So you can imagine trying to get your patient to do the most basic of moves as you're having this, you know, 2 step translation process.
And I just remember going, what are we doing right now? You know, aren't there any better tools? And the answer that I got was, yes, there's a lot of better tools. And all of them you have to pay for. And in a pro bono clinic, you know, that doesn't really happen. So that's kind of where we first started going. Why, right. We started asking to start with why the old Simon Sinek thing of why is it this way? And that's kind of what really started this spark.
SG: OK, so, so, and that's a that's a great identification. You're right at the pro bono clinic, You're not, you're not, you know, contracting with some fancy service that's going to provide all the bells and whistles that you need. But these folks have the same need as anyone else. And, and you need to be effective as a PT. So I certainly understand that.
OK, so now the seeds been planted, but how did the seed germinate? Like what happened? Because look, you and Jeff are busy physical therapy students. I mean, you know, PT is a Sprint. The educational process is a Sprint to begin with. There's not a lot of extra time, there's not a ton of time for reflection or heaven, heaven forbid, you know, putting together a business plan. So take us, take us through this process while you're going through school.
JA: So we get done anatomy, Physiology, all that good stuff. And we kind of really start, you know, where we're looking into home exercise program prescription. And I got to give a shout out to Stephanie Muth because she was a huge part of helping facilitate this idea. But we're in there and she says, all right, you know, basically we're going to, I want you to create a three or four exercise, home exercise program, you know, kind of write the prescription out and then talk about why. And so she gave us a web address of a free product to use and not downing that product, won't mention that product, but you know, we used it. And I thought to myself, gosh, because number one I tried using it on my phone and it wouldn't scale. It wouldn't, you know, do all the things that I was, I would think it would naturally do. It was frustrating to use. I would type something in and if I misspelled a word or a name, all my search results disappeared. So you had to type it in exactly. I didn't know exactly what I was looking for because I didn't know what all the exercises were called.
So I started running into all of these barriers trying to use this home exercise program builder. And then, you know, you'd print out the pictures. It was black and white at the time. There was no videos attached to it or anything. And I just looked at it and I remember I was sitting next to Jeff, and I leaned over and I said, you know, I bet you we could build something better than this, you know? And I remember he just kind of looked at me and goes, well, what do you think that would take? And honestly, as silly as that sounds, I feel like I kind of asked him a rhetorical question and I wasn't expecting his return. You know, I was kind of just the, yeah, probably a lot. And that's not it at all. He looked at me with intent, right? With intent. And I just kind of went, uh oh, you know, And so that's when, you know, that's when this started churning, right.
And you know, the funny thing is, Scott, I'd like to address the one thing if you said, you know, oh, you're busy in PT school and all this kind of stuff, let me tell you what my comparison was pilot training. And I have never worked harder, been more physically, mentally, emotionally stressed. I mean, you know, during anything in the world than my year and a half going through pilot training. And so I just had a different measurement that I was comparing everything to. And so when I went to PT school, I tell you what, I'd never had more time in my life. I'm not saying that it was easy. I'm not saying that it was easy, right? But looking back on it now, and Jeff and I have even talked about this, there's no way in the world that we could have started this right now. I'm way busier right now than I was in school. And I can't tell you how many people said, why are you trying to do this now? You're in school, you got to focus on school. You got to focus on that. Let me take that's when all the new ideas are there, right? That's when all the very basic components are being built in your mind and you go, why do I do a test this way? Why is the exercise this way, right? Like all of these basic things before you get all that dogmatic mindset of, well, this is just the way we do it. So I think it was a perfect time to start this.
SG: Yeah, that that makes sense. And I'm sure if your baseline is pilot's training school, then I'm sure nothing will compare to that. And in terms of the amount of stress. And I mean, I'll tell you, I was tremendously stressed just watching Top Gun at the theaters. So I, I can't imagine actually participating in this process what that would be like.
So all right, well, that's great. Again, you've got a big motor which is which is a fantastic thing, but one of I mean, look, not, I don't wouldn't want to be negative early on. And I'm glad Jeff kind of asked the question the way he did. And that was what I was thinking earlier about that spark, that conversation between you guys. But one of the things that I would think of right away as a real barrier is that, look, if we don't have a technology person to build this or a technology team, then, you know, like for instance, you know, I started by writing a book. Well, that required a computer, which I already possessed the Microsoft Word program, you know what I mean? And, and, and not a lot else, some resources that I had, etcetera. So how did you, how did you get over that and how did you address the tech part of it? Because that's a huge part of the business category that you're trying to enter.
JA: Yeah, no, it's a huge hurdle, you know, and you and I have talked about that before. And not only is it a huge hurdle even finding the resources, but it's expensive, right? And so you look at that, I mean, our product is, you know, free. And you look at that and you're like, how in the world is it free when all of this costs so much?
So first of all, we did six months of, and maybe that's not a lot, but six months of research and planning, whiteboarding conversations of even what this thing would look like, what we would need. We had to find out what we didn't know. And that's challenging, right?
So we had to, you know, mentally go through some of these exercises of if I want to create a video, what do I have to know or who do I have to know if I want to put this on a web page, if I want to put it on an app, right? And there's all these different decisions that you start to have to make. And we didn't know the answers to a lot of these. Is it, is it better to have an app? Is it better to have a web page? Is it better to have a web app? I didn't even know there was such a thing as a web app at the time, but apparently there is. And that's what we use now. So, you know, I, we had to learn all of this and it started with asking people in those fields. So I've just been blessed that I've worked with a ton of diverse background people. One of my good friends, his name's Derek and he's on our team right now. He kind of works as our business manager. His background is electrical engineering, very analytical mind. And you know, he initially we thought was going to be one of our developers. Turned out that was not the case. And you know, I don't need to tell that whole story, but basically we started finding people's strengths. We've gone through multiple people in and out, you know, that kind of thought that they could do what we were asking. And then come to find out it was either a, a vision difference, a personality difference, you know, or, or whatever. And so we went through the process until my brother, okay, just happens to be a developer for a very large international company. And I was doing some plumbing work for him. And I love this guy and he's very eccentric, right? And so he, he knows how to obviously build amazing things in the digital world, but he didn't know that, you know, there was a cleaner and then a glue before you put pipes together so that they seal and are waterproof. So that's right. So, you know, he would call and ask me and I would take my tools over there and, and I would do all this work for him, right. And I kept just dropping in his ear like, hey, sure would be nice to have some experience on the team. Hey, you know, looking to try and get these videos up to people could use them and play them and, and, you know, and all this.
And so anyway, out of there was a situation where one of his, his daughter was in the hospital and we were actually taking care of his son. And that was kind of, you know, neither here nor there, but we were just, you know, doing family stuff. And we got halfway through it. And he just said to me, he goes, hey, what do what do you think if I helped build your website and yeah, I tried not to jump out of my skin.
SG: Yeah, that's a hard one.
JA: Right, what would that look like? You know, because I look at a person in his position, you know, making very good living. And I thought I, I can't afford you, you know, so anyway, we took just all the information that we had, all the ideas that we had, we gave it to this guy. And he basically just took another couple months and put this whole thing together digitally as far as through a thought process and then laid out the road map for us and said, you know, what do you want to do? What is the end goal and what are the outliers?
And that was the biggest thing he said, in your wildest dreams, what would this look like? And that's where we started. And so, you know, our team today is made predominantly of five people. We have two developers. One of them is him. We have someone who works as our business manager, organizer. He keeps all of the same. And quite frankly, he works as a translator. He does very. And what I mean by that is he translates from the developer language to my operator creator language, which anybody who's worked in this space recognizes what a challenge that can be for me to talk about what I want to use, feel, touch, experience and translate it into what you have to type into a computer to make it happen. That is a critical skill set. And then Jeff, of course we, we call him our chief content banana. But really what that means is he's our chief content officer and he is, yes. And he is just amazing at it. I mean he just the amount of content that that guy can produce in a day, most people probably can't produce in two weeks. So it's amazing.
SG: It's incredible that you found these people for these niche positions and especially the tech thing because I mean, you know, I'm sure this would have cost you $100,000 to get produced by, you know, by a tech company, etcetera. And so, you know what it reminds me of, this is a ridiculous analogy, but it reminds me of the show Pawn Stars where like, you know, someone brings in, let's say you bring in a piece of Military Memorabilia and then Rick sits behind the counter and goes, well, let me bring in my friend Alan, who actually was a pilot for the Air Force Thunderbirds and also happens to be a puppet master. And it's like, it's like, what are you talking about? Like how did you, how do you, you know, is this person real? Like how do you find people who want to do this major tech project on the side? I mean, I guess it was good that it was family, but either way, you filled, you filled some other unique roles.
So, OK, so, so give me the pitch, like what let's talk about the product. What, what was your kind of baseline product initially? And then what does it emerge to today? So give the audience a sense of what your product actually does clinically.
JA: Yeah. So, you know, our tagline is free clinical tool simplified and it's, you know really about the clinical tools. So a lot of times when people look at, you know, our product or any product in this space, we had to recognize what was there first and the barrier to entry was a simple home exercise program. So that's where we started, right. We had to, we had to take a look at this and say we can't do anything else until we produce a premium experience on a home exercise program. So, you know, we sent out surveys, talked to literally hundreds and hundreds of people and we got this list and said, hey, you know what, what home exercises do you use? And you know, the challenging part is there is literally an infinite amount of possibilities of exercises. You will never get all of them right. And so you look and you say, wow, this is an impossible task. You just kind of have to look and find out what people use.
And so we found that over 90% of the time and everyone that we've surveyed, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, it was about 100 and three of those exercised were used 90% or greater of the time. And so that's what we did, right? We said, all right, 103 exercises that what we're starting with, and you know, to your point of all the different things, Jeff and I had to figure out how to set up a camera, what background color to use, how to edit. After Effects, by the way, is a beast. OK, You know, we watched a lot of YouTube, a lot of YouTube, you know, to start figuring all this stuff out and we made a lot of mistakes. But so anyway, we produced 103 videos and by that point we had, I'll call it a development shell OK of a web app. It was not pretty. It was not user friendly, but we created the videos, we uploaded to them. And then what we did is we went through what's called alpha testing. And alpha testing was we got a bunch of students, we got a bunch of clinicians, and we even got just some literally our moms and dads. And we had them sit down and we would give them instructions like, I want you to add three home exercises to a program. And then we would turn our mic off and we would watch them be confused. We would watch where their eyes would go, where their mouse would move right, their facial expressions. And we started just capturing all of this data. And so when we said, I want you to create a home exercise program, we found that their eyes went to the top left. So well, that's where that button should live then, right? And whenever they were looking for after they would add something, we would see that their eyes would scoot to the right. So whatever they expected on the left, after they clicked it, they were expecting it to pop up towards the right.
So we started, you know, just capturing all of these human elements and that's how we started designing the physical piece to it. And then we took all of those lessons we learned from the home exercise program creation. We said, all right, you know, what do we want to build next? So Fast forward, the major components of our clinical tool set right now are we have a home exercise program creator, we have an education piece we have where you can issue equipment, which is in its infancy state. And then we also have just some actual clinical tools in there. So whether it's BMI calculators, you know, all this different kinds of stuff or one Rep Max, right? How often have you been like, you know, when you're there, OK, I want to be able to max this person out with their one rep max. They can do 5 reps of this and you got to go Google this calculator, find the one you want and all this kind of stuff.
So, you know, now, you know, the idea is everything that you need, whether it's a student or clinician, is in the palm of your hand or on your laptop that you're using in front of you. And everything's mobile friendly and it's all free. So the idea was is, you know, when people first started searching the Internet, they would say, well, let me go search. I don't know, hammers and nails, right? And now they say, I'm going to Google it. And so where did that shift happen, right? That paradigm shift happened when people realized that the product that they needed drove the results that they want. And so that's why we didn't say TheraXpro home exercise program creator, right? Because that's not it. It's a whole clinical tool set. And eventually, and not right now, but you're going to see in this marketplace that the average consumer, the average user is going to expect more out of their software, just like how AI is coming in right now, right? Siri's not enough. And so it needs to be hooked up to artificial intelligence, right? More capabilities that people want more out of it. They expect more just to be there. And so when they use our program right now, the idea is not only can they create the home exercise program, that's step one, but now they can go, hey, I'm about to go see a shoulder rehab patient and I don't remember the special test that I need to determine if they have a rotator cuff tear. And now they're able to go in the exact same software, right? Look up the videos, the instructions, all the specific numbers that they need that are associated with that. Watch a video if they need to in under 40 seconds and go, ah, this is what I need to do and feel confident walking in which by the way, that idea came out of us walking into our, well, clinicals definitely. But you know, the, the different, oh gosh, the words escaping me. What is it when you have to go in and show you can do something?
SG: A cut like here, check off, check off practical, like a practical.
JA: Yeah, you got to do a practical, you know, and they say, all right, you know, you can either draw a shoulder or a knee, and you have to be able to differentially diagnose what's going on. And so, you know, everybody's in a panic. We're all standing outside the door wondering what's behind the door, right? And you go, oh, my gosh, I can't remember to do a certain thing on a shoulder. So you'd see people, you know, 25-year-old, you know, grown people panicking on their phone looking at YouTube and you go, Oh my gosh, this is a yeah. And you go, this is a 40-minute video, right? A 40-minute video trying to tell me how to do the Hawkins Kennedy test. And you're like, I just want to know how to do it right. And so that's how we approached it. You know, we didn't approach like this is all the data behind it. We just said, look, 30-40 seconds, this is how you do it, right? And so we just cut all that other stuff out and that's what's there. It's just what you need at that specific time. If you want to go study it, fine, that's on you.
SG: Yeah, yeah, you can always dig deeper. And isn't there also, don't you guys? Sorry, Jonathan, don't you also have an equipment piece now where that if I'm a therapist and maybe I want a patient to patients like, well, what kind of roller should I get? Well, maybe you ought to consider this to talk to me about that piece as well, because I thought that was pretty nice.
JA: Sure. Yeah. So that piece is very much evolving right now. So we initially started and we actually added a separate product and we called it PT recommends. And so there's a PTrecommends.com that people can go to and it's the products that we looked as physical therapist and got other physical therapist, occupational therapist, we have pelvic floor therapist. And we said, hey, what do you recommend to these people? Like specifically, you know, and what was happening a lot of times is that, you know, you would get this patient and let's just, I'm, I'm going to stereotype a patient here for a second. It's obviously not all true. But let's say I get a, a 75-year-old patient and you know, the stereotypical example is, is their son or their daughter tells them how to use their phone, right? And so they're not very great at this technology piece. And so you might have to walk them through it. And what would happen is we would find this particular product on Amazon, right? Which, you know, kind of classic example, we would find this roller or this 10s unit or what have you. And then we would have to find a way for them to access that. So what most people end up doing, especially in the outpatient world, is they print the front page off of the Amazon page, right? Because they don't have the capability to text it, e-mail it, you know, all this kind of stuff from their work computer. So we're literally giving this individual that has trouble checking their messages on their phone and we're saying I want you to take this piece of paper home that has 1000 things of information. By the way, when Amazon prints out their front page, it all screws up. So you got words everywhere. And I want you to find this product on a web page that you have never gone to yourself, has billions of products and order the right thing in the right size. Good luck, right.
SG: Yeah. Or with a URL that happens to be 120 characters.
JA: Oh my gosh, yes. And they just look at you like what? I'm never going to buy this.
SG: Yeah, it's not happening.
JA: So and you know, and, and skilled time, right. When you look at skilled time spent in the clinic, I really don't want to use the 30-45 minutes, an hour, whatever it is that I have with my patient trying to navigate the Internet. And So what we did is we made, you know, this whole group of products that PTrecommends and that's how it's set right now. It's about to about to evolve, but you know, we have few 100 products that we said, hey, the again, we went with that 80-90% right of what people order and use. Not everything's there right now, but and we said, OK, you can now add this to your home exercise program. So kind of digging back into the home exercise program, one of the unique things is you can text this, you can e-mail this course free, free, free. Every single thing's 100% free. I feel like I need to keep saying that because everybody's always expecting, well, when do I have to pay $0.99 a month? You don't. There is 0 paywall. It is 100% free and you know, you can translate in the other language, but you upload that or I'm sorry, attach that piece of equipment and that piece of equipment goes. Now when you, whether you open it up an e-mail, you click on the link in the text and it opens up in the web page, right then you can click on that product and it will take you directly to wherever that product is found so that you can just add it to your cart right there. And you know, it's the one that you, you know, you need. That's super slow.
SG: Now I love the free free free by the way, but think about like from a business perspective, like, you know, you've got five team members, you know, you've got to, everyone's got to stay motivated and passionate. And obviously you guys love to serve and give back or you wouldn't be a physical therapist, but at some point you also have lives and families and, and other things as well. So from a from a business perspective, do you talk to me about customers who have been using again customers, users I guess right because it is free. But then talk to me about kind of a long-term business plan like how is this viable from a business perspective? Because I'm guessing at some point it would be nice to get some, you know, compensation, reimbursement for your time and effort etcetera. How does this turn into a potentially a profitable business as well as just being a great service for so many?
JA: Yeah. So, you know, I think one of the best ways to answer that question is how much does it cost for you to use Google, right? Yeah, that would be zero. Yeah. But yet Google is a billion-dollar company, right? And so you look at that and you go, how in the world does, you know, a company like Alphabet who created Google, how are they a billion dollar company when almost everything I use by them is 100% free, right? And so that's what we had to start studying is we had to start companies, you know, look at companies and go, if they're offering during these absolute premium products and it doesn't cost them anything, how are they doing it? And the answer is volume, right?
So what they did take, like Google, they have literally billions of people that use them now. And what they do is they've created a collection and then they aim them at things, right? That's literally all they do. And so when you look at it, you know, would Google be able to be free if it had 10,000 users? No, absolutely not. But what happens is, is other companies, whether it's from products, services, whatever, they know that there is that collection of users that uses Google. So they pay Google to be able to get in front right of all of those users. So if you want to buy, I don't know, you want to buy a new pair of shoes. And when you type in, I want to buy a pair of shoes on Google, they want to be able to be the ones that pop up first, right? And that's not annoying to the consumer. That's what the consumer is searching for, right? So in the same way, right, part of this product piece that we have is we want to connect people with products that they are searching for.
I'd say one of the things that we're never going to do is we're never going to add these absolutely annoying ads and pop ups and all that other garbage that happens and got to X out this to keep using this product. Like that stuff drives me nuts. And if it drives me nuts, it's going to drive other people nuts. And so we want to put people in the position where when they're, you know, doing therapy or they're doing school or whatever they're doing and they're actively trying to find, you know, assistance in some way that we have a product option for them.
So Scott, you could appreciate this, you know, like what we're starting a resources page on our web page. One of our resources is going to be Scorebuilders. Why? Because people are having, they have to take the NPTE, right? If you're a physical therapist and you want to be a physical therapist, you have to take it. So they're obviously looking for study materials for the NPTE. So for us saying, hey, here's Scorebuilders, right? They're not going to go, oh gosh, why are they always advertising Scorebuilders? They're like, let me check this out because this is what I'm looking for, right? And it's a recommended product. It's a recommended resource. So that's how you know, we're trying to do that. But to do that, we have to do the same thing Google did. We have to collect a lot of users. So, you know, right now, you know, we've got, a few 1000 users, which is pretty great considering we really only launched this thing, excuse me, about close to two years ago where we really publicly said, all right, here it is. And we started with, you know, 50. I think when I met you, I think we had about 115 or something like that, you know, and I said, hey, we got this really cool thing. And I'm sure you're like, oh, I've seen 1000 of these, right?
SG: No, no, no, I thought it was great. No, I mean, that's a lot of growth and it's sure. And and, you know, sometimes it sometimes it's slow and steady growth. And then, you know, you get that you you mentioned earlier the hockey stick phenomena, right where stable over a you know, fairly, you know, whatever lengthy period of time. And then all of a sudden you see that that stick start to come up and and, you know, the ball gets rolling and once it gets rolling, it's easier to keep rolling. And so, yeah, so you guys are, you guys are clearly playing the long game. How do you, how do you keep the group motivated? I mean, you're, you're, you don't need to motivate yourself, I'm guessing because I just get that vibe, which is incredible. But but I mean, but this is tough, right? I mean this like how, what kind of how much are you guys working on this on a weekly basis?
JA: So let me go back to the motivation piece first, because I tell you, my brother, you know, the developer, he he has this phenomenal saying that I have, I have taken and I love it. So I got to give him all the credit. But it's motivation is temporary, discipline lasts a lifetime. And so, you know, for me to sit here and lie straight to your face and say, yeah, I got no problem with motivation. No, no, no, no. There are plenty of days where you just go. I really don't feel like getting into those gray shorts and blue top and filming another video, right? But you do it not because you want to, but because this is what it takes, right? And so, you know, one of the things that everyone in our group has, which is amazing, is, you know, Jeff has a prior career, Derek has a prior career. My brother has, you know, a current career. I have a current career in physical therapy, right? We all have other things. And we're all, and I'll use the word fairly accomplished in our fields, right? You know, And so we all know what it took to get there. And so we all had a very good understanding of this is not a fly by thing that we're trying to do, right? So it's not about keeping each other motivated, it's about holding to discipline.
So I have this other good quote that I love and it's not, you know, you never rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. And so the biggest thing is, is you have to make sure that you have the right systems because your motivation is going to Peter out and you're going to fall. And when you fall, you better have something that you land on that still produces. And so all of us, all of us have, you know, done that from time to time. Some of us are there now, right, where we have fallen to the level of our systems. And so we just say, hey, this is what we can contribute every week or every month or whatever. And that's what we do, right? So I, I don't know, I hope that answers your question, but it's no, it does. And I doing it because we agreed that we're gonna do it.
SG: I, I sense a lot of the military background being very advantageous to kind of the structure or even when you're getting into kind of the user interface research that you guys are doing everything like you guys are very analytical and you have a process for these things. And I guess it does relate back to these systems, which is why, I mean, again, this is an aggressive undertaking that that you guys jumped into. And to think that you actually have a functioning site at this point of time with thousands of users. And again, even since we've known each other, we've seen these different pillars emerge, whether it be, you know, the special test piece, the equipment piece. I mean, things are continuing to emerge. And, you know, clearly, again, you guys, aren't you also, I think went into this for the right reasons. No one expected that you're going to be doing this for a year and you're going to get bought by someone in Silicon Valley, you know, and all of a sudden, you know, you're just going to, you know, retire and be millionaires. That wasn't the goal at all. The goal was provide a better user experience and you stuck you, you really stuck to the principle of this being free, which I also love as far as that goes. So, yeah, I, I love the structure. I love how committed that many individuals are. Because it's tough, right? I mean, you have to define roles and you do have to have accountability. And if, you know, if people aren't pulling their weight or there are certain people that are holding back the business, I mean, it can become a real source of contention. And it can, it's destroyed many businesses before they've gotten off the ground. So anyways.
JA: We have to lay down, we had to lay down a lot of initial alcoholic ground rules, you know, between ourselves and, you know, one of I, I think that one of the biggest things that I see break up businesses. And you, you can see this, you know, in businesses, you can see it in churches, you can see it in relationships. It's the, it's the little things, right? So like someone will say something, the other person's feelings will get hurt. That person that said it never knew the person that's feelings hurt. They sit there and they just fester over it. And then before you know it, you got this problem on this, you know, down the road and you go, where did this come from? Right? And so one of the things that we do is we have to be OK with really challenging each other. And I mean, really challenging each other. You know, you got to be able to look at an idea and you got to say, this is not going to work, man. And here's the 20 reasons why. You know, and that other person that spent, you know, the last week or last month cultivating that idea, and it's their little baby, and they think it's beautiful. You might find out the baby's ugly. And you got to be okay with that, right? You got to be okay with that. And you got to go. Yeah, you know what? I didn't think about it, but this is not a great idea. So, you know, and just because it's not a great idea, it doesn't mean it can't be a great idea.
So, you know, then comes in the constructive criticism piece. So, you know, you have got to surround yourself with people that can absolutely sometimes harshly, constructively criticize your thoughts, right? So that you can put that iron through the fire and it comes out of sharp sword, right? And you know, it's one of two things. It either comes out of sharp sword or it burns and stays in the fire into a pile of mush. And if it burns and stays in the firing pile of mush, it wasn't a good idea to begin with. It didn't pass the test and it shouldn't be there, right? We, we have 3 rules for any idea that comes to the table. It's got to be clean. It's got to be simple, right? And it has to be stable, clean, simple, stable. Those are our three principles to any idea that gets presented. And already if it doesn't meet one of those principles, why are we talking about it? So, you know, just some of those real basics that we have had to establish and, and please don't think I'm saying it's easy. It is not.
SG: Oh, no, of course, you know, Jonathan, are you available for life coaching? I think you could do some positive things for my situation. I don't know if that's a possibility, but just thought of that. That randomly came into my head.
JA: You know, I tell you what, it's just, you know, you take a lot of hits, right? Whether it's professionally, personally, whatever. And one of the things that I've done, I'm a big reader and I say I'm a big reader, I'm a big listener. I've listened to a lot of audio books on a lot of walks. And you know, you just have a choice, right? You either overcome and figure out how to manage those things because there's no such thing as getting through to the other side, right? It's like trauma. You know, you're, you're never going to just pierce through and act like it never happened, right? What you instead have to learn is how do I manage this? And it's the same with business. When you make mistakes, right? It doesn't just go away. You know, feelings, once they're hurt, you have to address that. And that wound is always there. But are we going to learn from it and be better from it? Or are we going to be like, oh, you hurt me, right?
And so, you know, it's just it, it really boils down to relationships. And I'm very grateful that I have been surrounded by so many people that are way smarter than me. You know, I'm, I'm the guy that goes, let's charge the mountain and Jeff goes, Jonathan, the mountains over there, right? And I'm like, okay, let's charge the mountain, right?
SG: That's what you needed to do, right? Different skill sets collectively. I mean, I'm amazed at why you guys have truly pulled off. It's, it's unbelievable, frankly.
So Jonathan, one of the questions we always like to ask guests is from inspired by this podcast called How I Built This, which I'm guessing you're probably familiar with. But one of the questions they always ask is how much of your success do you attribute to luck and how much of your success is attributed to intelligence and hard work?
JA: Boy, that's a combination of both. I believe that success favors the prepared mind, right? You know, quote of, I don't even remember his name right now, but you know, I, I'm big on these different quotes because I think they kind of sum it all up. And so, you know, there's a little bit of luck of just happened to be surrounded by some of these people, right? But there's also a lot of, you know, I'll say humbly begging, you know, them to take a look at this idea, right? So there's that persistence, that pursuit. And so then, you know, you're fortunate, you surround yourself with these people, but just because you know them doesn't mean they're going to come together. And so maybe 50% luck, right? You know, of just happening to be surrounded by some of these individuals.
But I'll tell you what, that other 50% of work, it feels like 110% sometimes, you know, and you know, you just keep going, you keep going. I mean, like this podcast right here, right? You know, I felt lucky that you reached out to me and said, hey, would you mind being a guest? But you know what? I also know that if we were not here right now, if we had given up in a year and a half and said, this is a competitive space, right? Let's just shut it all down. It's not worth it. I'd never got that e-mail from you. I wouldn't be here talking to you.
So, you know, the just the relentless pursuit of staying in the game, right? Not even being the best. I'm not claiming we're the best. We're not. There's other products out there that probably do more than ours in different spaces. Good luck finding it for free. Right? For now.
SG: For now, you're on your way. You're on your way.
JA: Good luck finding someone that I can do. Yeah. So anyway, there's, you know, there's all those little things, but I guess it's 50/50, but like I say that other 50%, it can feel a lot more time.
SG: I like that part of it. I and I, you know, my take is my take is always that guests tend to be very humble and that it's, you know, it's a way more the work and the intelligence. But there's no question everyone needs good fortune, and everyone needs some stroke of luck. You need to have a good business concept. But again, you guys, you know, there's like beginner and intermediate and advanced trails. You guys took the advanced trail with the business that you're trying to accomplish. And so it's even more impressive to me. You guys have already we reach this point.
So Jonathan, what advice do you have for PTS and Ptas who are entrepreneurial minded? They're looking maybe for a side hustle to get started. And sometimes just feel overwhelmed by all the challenges and barriers and their debt structure. And you know, all the things that you could look at that they just make it. Maybe not today, maybe not this month, maybe never. I mean, what do you, what do you think are opportunities and how can we inspire PT and PTAs to take on projects, you know, like, like you or I have taken on as business owners?
JA: So, you know, I think it's two things #1 find out the problems that you actually see, right? And then #2 figure out what skill sets you possess and don't be humble about it. You know, So I mean, you can be humble, but you have to know your strengths and your weaknesses, right? And so when I look in the field and you say, oh, I want to be an entrepreneur and I'm a PT OK, well, the first thing that comes to mind, and there's obviously nothing wrong with this, but they say, well, I, I want to start my own PT business, OK, If that's what you want to do, that's fine, right? But you know, what kind of problem are you solving? Well, you're, you're really not, you're kind of solving your own problem because you just don't want to work for someone else and maybe you want to make more money or whatever.
So that's fine, right? So, OK, but then there's another kind of problem set right And you go, why does the physical therapy field do things this way? Right. And when you start approaching those questions, it goes far beyond should I attach a gym to my home exercise program? Should I be cash based? Should I, you know, do a different kind of therapy? Now you can start opening up your, your world here and going, you know, what problems do people have and how can I as a physical therapist, relate to this? And not only can I relate to it, but do I actually have a skill set or know someone that skill set to help solve those problems? And so all of a sudden your thought process starts to really expand, right? And now we're not just talking about I'm going to open up my own clinic or I'm going to do cash based. Again, nothing wrong with those things. Those are great things. But now we're talking about completely revolutionary ideas, right? You know, that kind of come to mind like crazy ideas like I'm going to go into a highly competitive, well established space and create a free product with all of the features that everybody else makes you pay for. Why would you do that, right? And you know what the reason is? Because you should do it, right? If you possess the time, the skills, the money, the effort, the people, whatever, whatever the answers are, if you can do that and, you know, go one step short of make the world a better place, why not, right? You know, so good.
Why is Elon Musk launching rockets into space? Because he can, right. And you know what? That guy, he puts his pants on, his socks on just like I do, you know, he gets tired at night and he probably every once in a while goes, I just want a bowl of Cheerios. And so do I.
SG: I think I would have changed this last part and then listen to it like once a month just to like get fired up. Oh man, it's so good. Jonathan, I've really enjoyed this. I mean, I, I don't know, you're going to be fired up. I think you're going to get a lot of the listeners fired up. And I really admire what you and your team have put together. And I'm excited to see where this next chapter takes you folks.
I mean, it's one of the, it's one of my favorite parts about doing this or even before we thought of the idea of the podcast is just connecting with people that I've come across, you know, during, you know, my very long journey, you know, through, through physical therapy and just seeing how people have evolved their careers, their businesses, you know, whatever it may be. And I'm just, I'm just so excited about anyone who takes that leap and puts in the time, the effort and, and has the creativity in order to even envision it in the first place. And you're, you're a prime example of that. So thank, thank you sincerely for joining us today. I appreciate it.
JA: Thank you. This was fantastic.
SG: And thanks to our listeners out there, we'll look forward to getting another podcast out to you soon and have a great day.
Voiceover: And there you have it. Another dose of PT-preneurial inspiration to fuel your journey. Check out more inspiring stories from PTs and PTAs out there making waves by listening and subscribing to our podcasts on your favorite streaming platforms. And don't forget to rate and review this podcast. Thanks for listening.