Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube - https://youtu.be/DAbvSi5Sw5E

Dr. Tom Walters, best-selling author, and founder of Rehab Science shares his journey and expert insights on pain, movement, and recovery. With over 2.5 million followers, Tom breaks down the science of healing and how to take control of your rehab. We talk about his top-selling book, treating elite performers, and how he brings evidence-based care to millions worldwide.

https://rehabscience.com/
Instagram: @rehabscience
YouTube: @RehabScience

Transcript

Voiceover: So you're a PT or PTA grad who's feeling the spark of something more. Maybe you dream of building your own business, one that's constructed around your vision, one that empowers you to make a real difference on your terms. This feeling, it's the entrepreneurial itch. And you're not alone. Countless PTs and PTAs are taking the leap to entrepreneurship, crafting careers that are as unique as they are. 

Welcome to Innovate and Rehabilitate the Entrepreneurial PT podcast. In each episode, we'll dive deep into the world of PT-preneurship with Inspiring physical therapists and physical therapist assistants just like you, who are crushing it on their terms. We'll uncover their secrets, their struggles, and the incredible impact they're making. From building your PT boss dreams to navigating the business side of things, will equip you with the knowledge and inspiration to turn your vision into reality.

So, whether you're just curious about starting your own business, or you're already out there making your dreams a reality, this podcast is for you. Get ready to unleash your inner entrepreneur. Let's do this!

Scott Giles (SG): Hello and welcome. I'm Scott Giles, founder of Scorebuilders. I'll be your host for this podcast. Today's guest is Dr. Tom Walters, bestselling author, board certified orthopedic physical therapist, and founder of Rehab Science. With a deep passion for human movement, pain science, and injury recovery, Tom has helped millions of people understand their bodies and heal more effectively. His book, Rehab Science: How to Overcome Pain and Heal from Injury, is currently the number one physical therapy book on Amazon.

He's also a social media sensation with over 2.5 million followers on Instagram and YouTube, where he shares practical evidence-based insights into rehab and recovery. Tom earned his Bachelor's in Exercise Science from Montana State University and a Doctor of Physical Therapy from Chapman University. He's taught kinesiology and pain science at Westmont College and even treated elite performers as a physical therapist with Cirque du Soleil. Now based in Santa Barbara, California, Tom balances clinical practice with family life alongside his wife, Kirsten, and their two daughters.

Let's dive into this incredible journey in the science behind healing. Tom, thanks a lot for joining us today. I appreciate it. I know you're a very busy guy.

Tom Walters (TW): Thanks Scott, thanks for having me. I was just saying that back in my days at Chapman University at the PT program, towards the end there I used your book. We all used your book to study for the boards. So, such a full circle moment. Thanks for having me on.

SG: Totally. We, and actually we literally just talked about this a minute ago before we went live, but we also realized that it was very possible that I may have been the course instructor for a two day course way back in the day with Tom at Chapman, a school that I've taught at many times. So yeah, so this, this is fantastic. So, you never know you're sitting in that classroom as a student, just, you know, hoping to get through this exam. The next thing you know, you're, you know, this, this PT icon with 2.5 million followers on social media and you're offering great advice and hey, a couple of weeks ago, by the way, picked up the book, very nice. And I've actually used it and implemented two exercises for a little back issue I've got going on already. So, we'll get into the book and things like that later, but no it's fantastic. 

All right, so Tom, how did this, let's go way back. How did you, you graduated from Chapman, you got into clinical practice. Let's talk about your early years.

TW: Yeah, I was an athlete growing up in high school, mostly a martial artist and a gymnast. So I always had really a deep fascination for exercise science and just the movement system. I didn't really have that language to describe it back then. I was like a lot of high school boys. I just was trying to get bigger muscles. So I was reading all the muscle and fitness. Yeah, exactly. I was reading muscle and fitness and just.

You know, but there was no anatomy and physiology in high school curriculums at that time. So I really actually didn't enjoy school and thought I would just open a martial arts school. And now reflecting back on it, I think what I really loved was teaching. I was a black belt. I taught taekwondo. Like I think education is the through line in my whole career. And it took me a long time to figure that out, but I really enjoyed teaching martial arts, thought I would open a martial arts school and then just decided I'll give college a one year try and just see where it goes and then I found anatomy and physiology and my wife will notice this, I can be very obsessive about something when I get into it and then once I found anatomy and physiology in this area of study, I really geeked out on it and I just, I fell in love with it and I think the combination of those years as an athlete, I'd had knee surgery in high school so I had experience with PT and orthopedic surgery and things.

So that love of kind of exercise and then learning about anatomy and physiology, physical therapy was kind of the, felt like the best route for me. I looked at a lot of different options from medical school, podiatry. I did an optometry internship. I looked at a lot of things and it was really, think the, it felt like the best fit for me. And when I was in physical therapy school, I was most pulled towards orthopedics. I really enjoyed biomechanics and kind of the, again, kind of that real kinesiology, kind of looking at the anatomy, how it influences movement, kind of the mechanical part of it. 

So that's where my early career was in a regular insurance-based orthopedic practice. And I only lasted just shy of two years in that before realizing that that model is so hard. Anyone working in the insurance model knows, it's just, you're seeing so many patients, just, the burnout rates are so high. And I just knew I wasn't going to last there for very long. 

So then I kind of went on this whole journey of exploring, jumping around at different things. You know, the Cirque du Soleil thing. I did traveling physical therapy for a year. My wife's a physical therapist, so we went together and did that. And then I found education and that teaching at Westmont College, I thought, taught there for 10 years in their kinesiology department. And I realized then that education is what is the thing I'm most passionate about and the thing I love. And so now that's really my filter for anything I say yes to, is does it have that education kind of foundation to it? And I really think of all of my social media content, really I think of myself as an educator. I would never call myself an influencer or content creator. It feels a little weird. think at my base level, I'm an educator. And so it's been amazing to be on those platforms and see them grow.

SG: Yeah, that's incredible. And we'll definitely get into that for sure. OK, so then you joined when you're at Westmont, you're a full-time faculty member teaching kinesiology. And were you, did you still have your hand in physical therapy directly at that time? And tell us about that.

TW:  Yeah, yeah, I had a sort of like a side cash practice so I had left insurance and I kind of kept that the whole time whenever once I came back to town after our traveling physical therapy stent and the Cirque du Soleil thing once we came back to Santa Barbara I opened pretty much a cash practice and so while I was teaching there yeah, you know with a teaching schedule. I didn't I just with the university schedule with a teaching schedule it's not really what we would think of as like full-time in terms of what you'd think of in the clinic. So I'd have gaps between classes or some days I'd only have one class. So then I would go down to this clinic and see patients there. 

Yeah, I was just kind of balancing the two. It was so great because I've realized over the years that seeing a few patients, and I see a lot less now, but seeing people does remind me of the common clinical questions that patients have and the common problems. And that really informs the educational content that I create. There is a, the two feed off each other, so even today, I try to keep some of my hands and mind in the clinical world just because it really does help that educational side.

SG:  Well, certainly, mean, it's great to work on both sides of those pieces, but you've certainly your educational process, your teaching chops, you those things clearly, you know, you get to put on heavy when you're at Westmont, which is great. And then you did the other. Now, I'm just trying to think what kind of time frame are we talking about when you kind of were at Westmont to when you started the working in the cash-based clinic? Because, well, address that first. How long ago was that just ballpark?

TW: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I finished Chapman in 2007. I started practicing in that insurance-based practice until about almost 2009 and then I was gone. So I basically I came back to Santa Barbara and I want to say it was it was early 2011 because our first child our first daughter was born in June of 2011. So we were back and I was seeing patients and then the fall of 2012 is when I started at Westmont College teaching. So pretty much as soon as I started teaching that fall of 2012, I also opened a cash practice.

SG: That, you are an early adopter of that. I mean, you for the most part, right? I mean, obviously there's some regionality associated with this, but you know, certainly the cash-based practice now, maybe the last five years has really exploded, but you were, were, you were very early in that. 

Tell us about that. How did you, was it an existing structure that was, that was a clinic where you could go in and you just see patients and you'd have to just, you know, pay a certain amount of what you saw, some fee per patient to see or was this something you were doing totally under your own umbrella? It was your deal, there was no one else involved.

TW: Yeah, it was totally under my own umbrella. So it is interesting to think about back in terms, like you say, a lot of people are thinking about cash practice now, but I guess I probably was early on back then. And I think really what happened was that I went down and studied with Chris Powers at his Movement Performance Institute in LA. that, I think seeing his model for his biomechanics lab and just the idea of a cash practice is probably what put it in my head.

Because I came back and actually the guy who ran the insurance based clinic here in town that was my first job out of school, I convinced him we'd kind of become buddies and I convinced him to come over and do the cash practice with me. So, we were our own independent providers but basically we were in a gym. So, it was a gym that had a downstairs area that was kind of a normal gym and then upstairs they had Pilates and yoga and things and we brought two tables in and just sort of paid them.

If we saw a patient, we'd pay them 10 % or whatever of what we charge. it was a great model. If I wasn't there, I didn't have to pay a lease, and I just paid when I was there. But I guess, we were early on probably in the cash practice model.

SG: Very much so. And the other thing that I love that you did and the same thing worked for me quite frankly is I was a faculty member at the University of New England for 15 years in their PT program. And that really allowed me to kind of build Sdcorebuilders as well during that time because you you're working with students every day. These students have to pass a licensing exam and I started to go on the road a little bit more and teach and I had the flexibility to do that because as you said academia I mean it's a lot of work. It's a lot that goes into it but there are pockets of time. 

Matter of fact, when I was at the University of New England, they provided you with one day a week that you could go do whatever you wanted. If you wanted to do research, if you wanted to practice, if you wanted to dedicate it to writing. So, I liked that it worked out very well for the Scorebuilders business. And I think same for you. You were able to keep a toe in each area. And then that obviously paid off later. when did the concept of rehab science then start to emerge?

TW: Yeah, it's funny, I probably was early on in this. I started Instagram, a rehab science Instagram, actually back then it was called Rehab Scientist and I started that in 2012 as well. And you know, that was back when people were just posting like food pictures and things on Instagram. There wasn't, there wasn't this idea of like being a content creator, having a business from that. 

And I actually, I was teaching for another organization and a physical therapist came to one of those courses and he was on Instagram and he said, hey, you should go on Instagram. And so that was actually to his credit, the, what gave me the idea to get it going. The funny thing is I deleted that account twice because at the time, you know, it was called rehab scientist it was sort of narcissistic, I think in a way I didn't really understand what I should be doing. You know, I think it got me to where I am now, right? You need those kinds of evolutionary type steps where you kind of figure out what doesn't work and what does work. And at the time I was posting things like just things of me doing box jumps in the gym or, you know, I wasn't putting out educational content. It was all movement related, but it wasn't really helping people. think it was, it had an element of that, but then sometimes it was just sort of me almost showing off or something. 

So I would always kind of wake, I would wake up one morning and be like, oh, this is why am I doing this? This is very narcissistic. I just delete the account. So what happened was I deleted it the second time in 2016. And I went into class, into my biomechanics class at Westmont. And a student came up to me and he said, hey, you had posted a rotator cuff post. it was really, the exercise that would help my mom, but I can't find it. And I had deleted the account. So, I was like, oh, this is what I need to do is just do this every day, address common problems. 

So I left biomechanics that day and went out and sat at the track at Westmont and I restarted it but I couldn't get Rehab Scientist because I had just deleted it. So I got Rehab Science which was amazing because it's such a better, it's less focused on me as the person, it's about the whole umbrella of what we study. And so, it was really a blessing in disguise that Rehab Science was available and that I couldn't get Rehab Scientist. But that's where it all started, like that December 2016 and I just thought, you know what, I'm just gonna focus on, I'd been in PT for about 10 years at that point, from 2007 to almost 2017, and I just thought, you know, I'm just gonna address, I've seen all these common patterns, I know these common questions and problems that people come with, I'm just gonna address them every day and just try to stick to it and see what happens.

SG: That's very ambitious. Yeah, no, I love it. But isn't it funny? you know, a lot of people, you know, might assume that, you you've got this big following, you're very well known, you're a published author, that, well, yeah, the path was very clear and that, you know, Tom had this strategic plan put together and he followed it and, you know, but, you know, you're stumbling along the way, right? But to your point, it's all part of the process. You didn't wait to start something until you felt like you had all the answers, that you had it figured out, but you're a seasoned educator, you're a seasoned PT.

And then day by day, you made the commitment. One of the things you said earlier that I love is you said, you I think you've mentioned that your wife may verify for this, but you tend to be a little bit obsessive or, you know, I prefer to think of that as highly focused. But I think that's honestly kind of a necessary attribute to do what you do where you're, where you are producing content or educational material, certainly on a weekly basis and sometimes on a daily basis.

So how, so okay, so now we're at the point where you're like, hey, someone's using this, people are liking it, you have a little more direction now, like you said, maybe not as much of a focus on you and performance, but on helping others get their patients better faster. So then we're, I mean, the trajectory obviously at some point just takes off. So how do we go from that point where, you're deleting accounts, adding accounts, changing names, how do we start to pick up momentum in Steam?

TW: Yeah, I like what you said. Hyperfocus is such a better term because I really do think it's an attribute that has helped me. I can just become incredibly focused on one thing, and I have to be careful not to lose balance with other things because sometimes I will become too, almost too focused. But you know, from that point, once I, and exactly like you said, it was stumbling forward. I had no strategic plan. I was just doing this because I was passionate about it and wanted to put out content was helpful. And this was just a platform to do it. I just, It wasn't, I cannot say I went into it. People know so much about social media, creating businesses from social media now. There's so much about it. There was nothing that I knew of back then. I just was, yeah, I was just putting stuff out. 

So I think I heard a quote one time that success is this combination of opportunity and experience when those two things come together. And I think exactly like you said, I was 10 years into being a PT. So I recognized common patterns, had some experience treating patients, knew what tended to help people, and then there was this opportunity to put things out there on social media. And I was, like you mentioned with Scorebuilders, I was lucky in that because I had pursued this teaching position, teaching was great that it opened up time, it gave me some flexibility. Teaching almost felt like the next thing below being an entrepreneur because you had some freedom with your time. And that was so important to me. It's always been my number one value. It allowed me to kind of pursue other things. 

But to your question, know, once I had that third account going in late 2016, almost 2017, then I just focused on everyday posting and I really, that's where the hyper focus came in and I figured out my systems and I think it's so much about systems to be able to be consistent on social media. And that took me a long time to develop. I go back and look at those early posts, they're all, they differ in a lot of ways to what I'm doing now. And in the early days, I was having to create lots of new content. Now I can kind of recycle things. There's so much stuff. And I've answered almost every question. I can kind of bring it back and change it slightly. So the system is easier now than it was in the early days. But I just tried to stay consistent posting every day and answering questions that help people solve common problems. 

And it really grew fast, I think, probably because I was really, at that time, probably one of the first 5 to 10 PTs on Instagram. I only knew a few other people posting content regularly. So it really, it grew pretty fast. And you know, in those days, it was so amazing you'd gain 10,000 people and just be, oh man, I was probably more excited about that than I am now if it goes up a hundred thousand, you know? So those early days were so exciting and you had so much engagement, you know, it's changed a little bit over the years, but you had so many people. I spent so much time in the comment section answering questions and I'm naturally pretty introverted. So while I recognize the gold standard is seeing a patient in person and working with them and being able to touch them and move things, it is very draining to me. Whereas answering questions on social media wasn't that draining. I think because there's a little bit of a barrier there and you can step away from it when you need to. It really worked well for kind of my personality and that really helped it grow too is that I think people could see not only this guy on here posting content but he's also kind of responding to questions and so that was a lot of what helped it grow back then and still today.

SG: So tell us a little bit for those that aren't familiar with Rehab Science, tell us the scope of your offerings. What do you do? What do you offer? Why should physical therapists be interested and patients for that matter in your current offering?

TW: Yeah, so essentially Rehab Science is mostly a social media brand that's on Instagram and YouTube. And of course I have my website in the book, initially it was really just social media platforms and the offering, initially it was not a, I didn't think of this as a business, so was really just an educational offering, trying to help people understand their bodies, understand common pain issues and injuries and then you know, really the educational side of like we would like if somebody goes into physical therapy, the physical therapist is going to educate you on the condition and help you develop a plan to navigate it going forward. And so, I think I was doing that in sort of a digital landscape. The person wasn't obviously always talking to me, but it was really providing them some of the educational materials that I'd give to a real patient and amazingly seeing it really helped people navigate those issues without them actually coming in and seeing me for an evaluation and appointment. 

That was like that for years. I didn't think of this, I never thought of this being a business until probably two years in. It was probably, I started in late 2016 probably around, somewhere in the middle of late 2018, I started developing digital rehab programs so people could go pay a small amount and they could pick a program based on, I've got sciatica, I've got tennis elbow, I've got Achilles tendinopathy. They could buy a program on my website and have kind of the exercises that I would typically prescribe. So that was really the first offering. And like a lot of things in business stumbling forward, it didn't do well.

Like that offering never really sold and it may have been that I didn't spend a lot of time marketing it and that's something that I've learned over the years, learned a lot about marketing and just being out there. But that offering didn't do well so I really then had to iterate and come up with different things and that's another thing that I never, I was never really taught much about business. Now I consume all kinds of entrepreneurship and business content. Nobody had told me about this idea of kind of like failing fast, trying things if they don't work, iterate and just keep trying. And so that was something I had to kind of slowly learn on this journey. 

But yeah, that it wasn't really a business in the beginning. It was really just educational offerings, which I think worked to my benefit because I built trust with people and I wasn't asking for anything. 

SG: That’s a great point.

TW: And I think, you know, I think so much of social media now people just are in it for the outcome. They're just there to try and make money and build a business. that's not the way you can approach it. Not only will you not last, you'll burn out. This stuff's a marathon. You have to be in it with the right mission. If you have the right mission, you will stay consistent, and you'll stay with it for years. And then you can build trust and maybe launch a business out of it. But if you come into it with that mindset right away, just seeing so many people fail, they don't last because they just aren't, they're in it for the wrong reasons. And your audience, the audience will see through that. Even sometimes when I, sometimes if I get a little too focused on, now that it is kind of a business, if I start thinking too much about the business and offers and things and thinking about, you know, revenue or that, I will, if I lose sight of that just a little, I think it affects the energy and the educational content that I put out, brings down the quality. 

So I really have to remind myself, like, what is the mission of this? It really is just to help people first off. And if it doesn't, if it only does that, you know, I'm just there to help people, that's gonna help build trust. Then when I do ask for something later on, people are gonna be more likely to wanna support it.

SG: Yeah, I like that. I like what you had said because you're right. It's a very skeptical, people are very skeptical today, far more than they were a decade ago. And there's probably a reason for that, right? I mean, there's some healthy level of skepticism. So you're not taking advantage of, you know this person's legitimate, but yeah, it was a noble pursuit for a long time for you and money wasn't part of it. You weren't charging for anything and people found your, your information to be beneficial. 

So it's, you know, I know it's tricky sometimes to build that way because you know there are a lot of economic pressures on people, etcetera, but I think you're right. If you go in too hard, too quickly without kind of the street cred in order to, you know, support what you're doing, I think it can be very, very difficult. Now, how did, that tell us about, I mean cause this book is amazing to be honest with you. I mean my goodness, so much detail. So how did you, what was the premise here? Let me just preamble a couple of things. I mean, I could see how you'd be extremely attractive as an author because you have such a massive following, right? And from a quality control standpoint, people have watched the quality of these videos. They know what a master clinician you are. But how, was this something that you went out and sought a publisher? Was this that someone came to you and said, hey, Tom, you know, we're a big fan of yours. We have a great idea. We'd like to collaborate because I'm sure your following has opened up a lot of doors. So I'd kind of like to touch on that a little bit in terms of how that's been a part of your business growth.

TW: Yeah, you're exactly right. The publisher, there are lots of opportunities that come around now, you know, and that is another where it's taken me some time to kind of figure out what I say yes and no to slowly kind of figuring that out. But this one was the publisher reaching out to me. It was actually my co-author Glen Cordoza, whose name is on the front cover of the book. He actually emailed me and that was February of 2021, so we were in Covid and it was just perfect timing, you know, because I wasn't seeing that many patients. I was still just doing the social media stuff every day, I just, and I was out of my teaching job. I left my teaching job in the spring of 2019, so that was kind of when I went full in on rehab science was spring of 2019. And then, you know, Covid hits and luckily for me, I had been building that already. And so it was already someone people knew online. And so when seeing patients kind of went away, I still had that to focus on. And then, yeah, he reached out to me. 

The book world is a little tricky now because publishers are looking for people who already have an audience, you know, they like you said there's it's built in marketing already there's no guarantee, but there's a more of a guarantee, that you're gonna be able to sell copies of the book if they take you on. So they really have thresholds now where you have to have a certain following, at one point I heard it was 5,000 followers, but I'm sure it's probably higher than that now but they want to make sure you have a following before they think about the idea of bringing you on. And that was what happened. My co-author Glen emailed me and just one of those emails that I would have almost thought was spam and would have deleted but I'm glad I read it through. 

Yeah, that took down that took me down the journey of the book, which was a two-year process. We spent you know, a big chunk of Covid writing the book and the main motivation for me was that while social media is incredibly helpful for rehab content, you can't get into the same nuance. There's just always pieces left out. You know, people would find a post on a particular topic and there's a word limit in the description. You just can't, and a lot of times people wouldn't read the caption. And you're not, I'm just showing a few exercises. That's a lot of what my posts are, these carousel posts where I’ll show the anatomy kind of like of a particular issue, maybe it's Achilles problem. You see the Achilles and the Achilles tendon and talking about tendinopathy and then they can swipe through to exercises. And typically it's kind of a progression of exercises, but it's not, there's no real instruction you just can't include all that. 

And so the book to me was a real opportunity to get into the science of pain injury rehabilitation, which are the first 10 chapters of the book. I have, there's about 500 research citations. So, I really spent a lot of time going through the research. And I had a real deep interest in pain science. I really wanted people to understand pain, understand injury. What are the differences between those? Because as we know, sometimes people have pain and don't have injury. Sometimes people have an injury and don't have pain. And so just kind of teasing those apart. And then the back part of the book is basically programs with pictures of me doing the exercises but broken down by bodies. Each body region has its own chapter. And the goal was to just really be able to provide more of the educational content like if they actually came to see me in the clinic and then really create programs that, I mean, they're still cookie cutter programs, right? Because I'm not evaluating the person and understanding their symptoms, exact symptoms and impairments. So it's not the same as, like I said before, I think the gold standard still is you go see a clinician, they give you the two or three exercises that really are the exact thing for where you're at in your healing process and your symptoms. 

But it is amazing what people can do when they have a book with the right educational content and a general progression, how many people I've talked to that have been able to navigate their own issues with just a resource like that.

SG: Yeah, which is why I think it's so amazing because this so broad and I mean, how, was your, what was your kind of strategy in terms of walking that line between making this obviously it's heavily evidence based in terms of its influence. But yet this is not reading like a manuscript in PT journal or it's not, I mean, you had to make this kind of accessible to the lay person, but you also, would imagine, wanted this to be valuable for the practicing physical therapist who's just looking to, I need some additional ideas. I mean, because the fantastic illustrations, really nice, clean descriptions. And so, I think there's value in both, but it's kind of hard sometimes playing it to two masters, meaning the general public versus a healthcare provider. So, talk a little bit about that. Where'd you draw that line?

TW: Yeah, and that was exactly what we went into it with but it is a it is a tricky line because my audience has always been that it's a good mix of general population who are looking for help and then all different types of fitness and rehab practitioners who want to figure out how to serve their clients and patients better. So, we knew going into the book that we wanted to be able to serve both groups and I think probably from my side, I think that's again where maybe some experience comes in just in learning how to communicate with patients. And I'd also spent years, I taught for Red Cord, which was a Norwegian physiotherapy company. I taught for them for six years, taught just practitioners. So I came into the book with this kind of interesting, I think, background of teaching patients, teaching practitioners, and teaching kinesiology undergraduate students. 

So I think, you know, I think part of it is that to some degree, maybe I developed, I'm just guessing, but maybe kind of developed an educational kind of framework that has allowed me, I was thinking about this beforehand and I can't say for sure, but I think probably those different areas of teaching have helped me in my both spoken and written communication to be able to kind of break some of the complex things down for patients, but also, keep it enough technical that the practitioners still feel like they're getting their educational needs met out of it. 

The other side of it is that Glen, my co-author, his whole career has been in fitness books, and so he is not a physio. He's not a physical therapist. So he was amazing in that anything that I would write, he could also then read it through the lens of the regular person.

SG: It's very valuable.

TW: Yes, because I have a tendency to write probably a little more technical like what the practitioners would want. So I have to remind myself like if I’m using anatomical terms and things, you know the hamstrings are on the posterior thigh like I will sometimes just write things like that and I think most general public people don't seem to complain I think they probably can figure things out more than we give them credit for, but Glen was amazing in that whatever I would write he would he could tune it up to kind of just see it from a different perspective. I think when you've been in something for so long, sometimes it's hard to fully grasp how someone who's not in your profession, how much they would perceive of it. So was his input and editing there and writing was, the book wouldn't have been anywhere near the product it is now without him.

SG: Yeah, well, I don't know how much intentionality there was when you did that, but that worked out fantastic, right? I mean, the two of you come at it from completely different sides and probably settle right in that sweet area. And I think there are a lot of physical therapists like me too, that you know what? Sometimes it's nice when I'm not reading something real technical. You know what mean? You're getting the key pieces. I mean, you can fill in the blanks through your clinical knowledge and decision making, etcetera. But a lot of times it's just for, you know, I could see something like this from me going to for just, I haven't treated that many patients with this condition. I need some ideas. I need a more advanced, you know, progression on the exercise that I presently have them doing. Oh that's kind of cool, I never thought about that. And then it's just there for you. 

So, I think this is a tremendous resource, not just for PT students who obviously, I'm just picturing a student out on clinical experiences, right? You can't bring all your books, your detailed notes, etcetera. You when you think about the option of like randomly Googling or going down that hole, I mean, you know, that efficiency is just not there. But I also think again, for the practicing therapist, there's value or even maybe validation sometimes. Okay, yeah, this, I like where this is going. It makes sense. That's kind of what I was thinking. And Tom gave me these other ideas or just maybe confirm what I was thinking.

Because you're right that the practicing clinician has the advantage in many cases of seeing the patient right directly and they can fine tune. But you know, is this I could even see in someone being like, you know, I don't think from a differential diagnosis, you know, situation, I'm not even sure this is really what I'm dealing with anymore. It's really presenting more like X, Y or Z. So it's a thought exercise like most of these things. And it's just putting more things in your toolbox, which is why I liked it so much. 

Now so as your as your business has kind of expanded, I mean, this is this is like a real like I'm not asking any financial information obviously, but this is like a real legit, successful business. I'm sure you've been able to for a while, no doubt you're a chief cook, bottle washer, you know, every active task, you had to figure out a way to do it and go through the process and you didn't have a business coach, etcetera. But as you've evolved, have you taken on, are there other people in the Rehab Science team? And this, this could be, this could be video people, this could be business coaches, tell us about your supporting cast.

Yeah, it actually has still stayed pretty much a solopreneur type situation, which I am always on the fence of changing that. But I do have a few. Now my wife's a physical therapist, so she's basically my videographer and she's a consultant and a lot of, you know, like if I'm filming a YouTube video on a particular topic, I'll often ask her, you know, is there something else you like to give patients for this or is there a cue or something? So, it's she's a huge asset, right? Like I would have to pay a videographer weekly to film content. 

And sometimes for the manual therapy videos, my kids actually film them. have two daughters. They'll film the reels. So I'm taking advantage, it's child labor at this point.

SG: We did the same thing forever. Sometimes when I'd have to ask my wife to be in like a little video or an image, she'd be like, I look terrible. There's no way you're putting that out. You don't have to get into those things. Then with some of the kids, it'd be like, Tommy and Nicole would like to come over if you've got any more patient work and we pay them a little bit. You know what I mean? But yeah, that's what you gotta do. You gotta bootstrap, right?

TW: Totally Yep. Yes. Yep. Yeah, so, you know, I've been able to keep it mostly with that It is starting to get to the point where sometimes my bandwidth is pretty maximized with running the podcast on my own and I did have actually in the early phases when I was doing more in-person podcast episodes I did have a podcast producer who'd come and help me so that was another individual, but I've switched to doing kind of all virtual. So writing the podcast on my own, all the social media, book marketing, you know it does sometimes feel like my brain is sort of, I still have a lot of freedom with time. So it's kind of a weird, it's this weird mix where I feel like I've got time, but also my brain feels very maximized like I, I think it's part of that hyperfocus thing. I have a hard time. I just never stop You know, it's the entrepreneurship thing.

SG: Yeah, well that's I was gonna say. You clearly love this process. And so when you still feel like you have time, it's because you're not completely, yes you're busy, you're extremely busy, but you're engaged in a labor of love and you're not mentally exhausted because this, I'm sure this fuels you to large part. How does your wife feel about this? And I only ask because with any entrepreneur, that's a delicate, I always joke with my wife, sometimes I'll come home and be like, hey, I have a really good idea I'd like to talk about and she'll be like, not tonight.

TW: Yeah, no, that's exactly what it is. Yeah, I have to restrain myself from talking to her because I'm a verbal processor and it drives her crazy. So anytime we'll take the dog for a walk, I just have to not because I'll talk the whole hour about what I'm building and developing and she can't take it. She's so sick of it. So yeah, luckily I've got Glen now with the book. So, he and I verbal process together and I have another buddy I chop things up with. So, I try to restrain myself and I've really been trying to be better about that because it does. 

I mean, she loves that I have freedom of time. The girls have an event at school or something, I can go to it. So obviously, she sees that positive, but she does get sick of me sort of ruminating and talking about things all the time. 

And then when you ask, actually for YouTube I have a guy who makes my thumbnails who's in Ukraine. So, I have a guy in Ukraine who makes my thumbnails. So that part is, it's cool to collaborate and connect with other people but he's pretty much the only contractor that I use but like I said…

SG: And was that through Upwork or Fiverr or something? 

TW: That was through Fiverr, yeah.
SG: We've talked about that with some of the other guests, but it's a great, I mean, we found, we have an animator we've worked with almost 10 years from Brazil. And the cost, we were looking at $150 per hour animation costs around our area. And with the amount of animation we do, it's not even possible. We couldn't even consider doing that at the time. And even now, why would we want it? We have this fantastic relationship with this person. So yeah, so for people, again, there are options. There are a lot of options. And it sounds like you've had a similar trajectory to what we've done with using contractors.

TW: Yeah, yeah, I think there's so much like I harp on this all the time, but I think any of the physios, PTs, listening to this I just think there's so much value in creating a personal brand and social media like if you want to, you're trapped in a work situation that’s kind of burning you out and you don't have any control over your time or maybe just want to make a little bit more, I just think there's so much value in taking that knowledge you have that can help people solve problems. 

Everyone around the world has a phone and is on social media. I mean my largest geography on YouTube is India, right? Like they, a lot of times can't go see physios, or it's too expensive, but they can watch a YouTube video and get better. I just think if you, there's so many opportunities, we were talking about this earlier, like there's so many opportunities that come from building a personal brand. 

Not only are you out there just helping people and having that as your foundation for why you do it, but as it grows, you know, if you can be consistent with it, kind of do it on the side, find a system that works for you and a way of doing it that you enjoy it really can grow. And I mean, I don't know about where you're at, but out here it's like an 8 to 12 week wait for people to get in to see physios right now, in insurance clinics, so just think you know, there are lots of people looking for solutions and I think sometimes people sometimes people talk about it being saturated, but I think if you find kind of your niche area, maybe it's a specific region of the body, a specific condition. I've got a buddy on Instagram that only does hips. He's just the hip physio. And, you know, there's people that only do neuro or, you know, different specialties within PT. I just think there's so much to, there's so much potential upside to building personal brand. And maybe that helps you, like I say, build a little extra money. Maybe it builds enough to where you can get out of a job that's kind of slowly just burning you out.

SG: Yeah, yeah, no, I don't think there's any question about it. It's tough, right? Because I mean, there's, think there's the mindset when you talk to people, especially with social media pieces that, some people just feel like, and maybe it's just the exhaustion of PT school, but feel like, you know, all the good ideas have been taken, taken. Everyone has a podcast. Everyone's trying to be an influencer. I mean, what would you, what would you say to those people who maybe just feel like, because I would argue at any point in history, people have felt some of those same things and maybe it wasn't social media. Maybe it was there are so many other educational resources out there, there’s so many other good print materials. There's just too big a barrier to entry, right? And obviously I think one of the wonderful things social media has done is the barrier to entry. You know, it's not like you have to like your book if you had to write this book and you had to have, you know 10,000 units printed or something reasonable to get a legitimate unit cost. I mean, you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars, like, you know, without question. And so again, there are not the barriers to entry, but it's a competitive marketplace. So, what would you say if I said, look, appreciate it, Tom, you've done fantastic. You were in early. I wasn't. I don't have the opportunities you have. Bring me back from the ledge.

TW: Yeah, I would say, yeah, totally. I think exactly you said the barriers to entry are so low. You literally, if you just have your, I record everything with my iPhone, everything that's with my iPhone. After a while, I got a wireless mic. I have a Rode wireless mic I got on Amazon. Like you do not need much, and you could just start with your phone. And I just think that people have to remember that it's not just the information you're putting out because all these platforms are mostly video based you have to remember it is your essence as a person. That is your personal brand. That's what differentiates you from everyone else. 

So yeah, you might be talking about, you could literally, if you're somebody who can learn to kind of can communicate, like if you've been working with patients for years, you probably have some decent skill in communication. So if you can communicate and get over the fear of like being on camera and that only takes a little while like you get used to hearing your own voice and it doesn't annoy you anymore and you just get used to seeing yourself on camera and talking to the camera you adapt to it. It's not it just takes a little bit of practice. You can get over the fear of like putting things out and people seeing it. Even if you're covering the same information if you can just take those communication skills you've got in the clinic your essence as a person is what differentiates you from everyone else. You could cover the same material and I guarantee still grow a YouTube or Instagram. And I see people doing it all the time. I see new physical therapists, new chiropractors starting social media accounts and blowing up because they spend a little bit of time, you know, thinking about what they're going to record. You know, in the beginning, it's probably just thinking a little bit about what am I going to say in this video? Just a little bit of research on like what makes a good video. There's so much content out there on that right now. Like what makes a good video?

I edit all my videos with an app on my phone so I just, it's not that complicated if you just spend a little bit of time Just try to get one or two percent better each day. Like just try to put in a little bit even if it's just a side thing that you're you know, you've got a full-time job you can easily do this on the side, put things out there and I think even though there's tons of information on everything. It really is you as a person that differentiates you from other people. 

Because even what I'm putting out, I mean, look, there are people that are growing like crazy and we're covering the same information, but what differentiates me is me. Like I am different from those people. I have a certain look about me, a certain way of communicating, a certain energy. Like that stuff is what differentiates Rehab Science at this point in a lot of ways from all the other people who are covering the same topics.

SG: Yeah, and you've put yourself out there, right? I mean, you've given your audience the opportunity to sample you, your personality, your demeanor, your offering, your education. And I'm sure your number of repeat users is incredibly high. I'm sure you're a favorite on many people's browsers, and you've earned that over time. But again, when you started, there wasn't a clear trajectory. There wasn't a clear path. You bought a ticket to the game, you  know, maybe in the top row of the bleachers and then look what's happening. Now you've got this beautiful box down low and you're looking at, mean, you've paid your dues and you've gone through this process, and you're still not satisfied. Why? Because you love it.

So yeah, so I guess I like to always tell students, I think you articulate this really well. It's like, get into the game, like start something. Like you said, the 1 to 2% better every day, every week, whatever it may be. Meaningful changes and then opportunities just present themselves like the book did to you, right? And like 10 other things like that have happened in your career as well and you were open to it. You were obviously very good at making decisions and weighing different offers. I'm sure you do that all the time now with brands and other individuals who approach you. But again, you didn't have all the answers initially. You still don't have all the answers. But boy, your trajectory has been absolutely fantastic. And I'm super happy you took the time and were willing to talk to us. But I get excited about, I know what being an entrepreneur has meant to my happiness, my family, and all of these things. 

I just think it's so important for students to, yes, you're gonna be a physical therapist. That's fantastic. But there are other opportunities out there that may fulfill you, they may complete you, and they just make you a better therapist regardless. So let's consider starting. And I think people like you are very inspirational for people to hear their story, or your story in this case, and maybe dream about their own future. 

So thanks so much for joining us. I really appreciate it.

TW:  Well, thanks, Scott. Yeah. No, thank you so much for having me on. just couldn't agree with you more. Every time I go back now, once or twice a semester, I go talk to the kinesiology students and I talk about the same thing because most of them are looking at going to physical therapy school and I just try to put it in their minds that like, look, I've gone on this journey and if you want to go into whatever healthcare field you go into, if you are willing to kind of take some risk and be creative, you can create that thing. Nowadays, just like we talked about, the barrier to entry is so low.

You can take this information and knowledge that you're gaining and figure out ways to share it with the world and create a business out of that. And if you're, I think sometimes people are scared to take the risk, but it doesn't have to be something you just jump into and leave. You can do this stuff on the side and it doesn't have to be a really complicated, there's so much editing and I've got to have the right equipment. No, you don't really need all that stuff. I mean, you really can just get going. You just gotta, there's a YouTube account that I love that always says, just hit record. Like, just hit record. Just think about something. Like, what do wanna cover today? Like, think about a patient. A patient came in and asked you about something, a lot of people have asked me about that. I should just talk about that for a second. Like, just start putting stuff out there and you will slowly evolve. Just like we talked about, I came into this with no strategy, no business sense. Like, just, I was literally just taking what patients had mentioned to me and then I took my phone and I recorded me doing exercises in the gym and I put it up. I learned how to cut things into a square. That's all I knew. So yeah.

SG: That's pretty high tech, but you're an, you're an idea guy. And above all, you're probably when you're not probably, you are a grinder and you're committed to your craft and, and look what it's resulted in. So continued success. I'd really encourage people to go get the Rehab Science book. I found it to be very, very helpful. I've spent a fair amount of time with it actually. So I can, this is a legit recommendation here. 

But Tom, continued success and we'll look forward to seeing what the next item in your journey is.

TW: Thanks, Scott. Thanks, man.

SG: You’re welcome.

Voiceover: And there you have it. Another dose of PT-preneurial inspiration to fuel your journey. Check out more inspiring stories from PTs and PTAs out there making waves by listening and subscribing to our podcasts on your favorite streaming platforms. And don't forget to rate and review this podcast. Thanks for listening.