Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube - https://youtu.be/NjTBylgOAhA

Sofo Sarellis is the founder of Symbol www.symbol.win, revolutionizing athletic performance footwear. By combining cutting-edge research with entrepreneurial vision, he's creating shoes designed to help individuals reach their full potential. Join us as we dive into Sofo's journey, the science behind his innovations, and how Symbol is shaping the future of performance footwear. Instagram @Symbol.Win

 

Transcript

Voiceover: So you're a PT or PTA grad who's feeling the spark of something more. Maybe you dream of building your own business, one that's constructed around your vision, one that empowers you to make a real difference on your terms. This feeling, it's the entrepreneurial itch. And you're not alone. Countless PTs and PTAs are taking the leap to entrepreneurship, crafting careers that are as unique as they are.

Welcome to Innovate and Rehabilitate the Entrepreneurial PT podcast. In each episode, we'll dive deep into the world of PT-preneurship with Inspiring physical therapists and physical therapist assistants just like you, who are crushing it on their terms. We'll uncover their secrets, their struggles, and the incredible impact they're making. From building your PT boss dreams to navigating the business side of things, will equip you with the knowledge and inspiration to turn your vision into reality.

So, whether you're just curious about starting your own business, or you're already out there making your dreams a reality, this podcast is for you. Get ready to unleash your inner entrepreneur. Let's do this!

Scott Giles (SG): Hello and welcome. I'm Scott Giles, founder of Scorebuilders, and I'll be your host for this podcast. This is the first of three episodes spotlighting businesses created by students while pursuing their physical therapy degree. I have immense respect for anyone who starts a business, but to do so while navigating the demands of a PT program takes things to a whole new level. It's truly impressive.

Today we're joined by Sofo Sarellis, the founder of Symbol, a cutting edge footwear company that's attempting to reshape the world of athletic performance. Sofo's unique background as a physical therapy student at New York Institute of Technology, combined with his expertise in sports performance and bio mechanics, has driven him to challenge the conventional norms in athletic footwear. Sofo has an undergraduate degree from Adelphi University and a graduate degree from Arizona State University. He served as the inaugural Assistant Sports Scientist at Luke Air Force Base, working with a multidisciplinary team to improve human performance for F16 and F35 fighter pilots. 

In this episode, we'll dive into how Sofo is blending research driven innovation with an entrepreneurial vision to create high performance footwear that helps individuals reach their full potential. Sofo, thanks a lot for joining us today. I know we're, we're grabbing you in between finals here and, and you're, you're tremendously busy guy being a PT student and having this, this business. 

But let's, let's get into the specifics because I, I think your, your business is very, very interesting and very complex. So let's dive right in. So tell me, tell me a little bit about how your background in sports performance involved. I would say you're a non-traditional student. You've had a lot of experience. You have a graduate degree before even going to physical therapy school. So talk to us how you got to the point in the in in the pursuit and how the business concept evolved.

Sofo Sarellis (SS): Yeah, absolutely. And thank you guys for having me on. So essentially I knew I wanted to be a PT really early about sophomore year of high school. You know, athlete love sports, love the background of why the athletes were performing, how they performed. And well, the first thing that kind of stuck out to me was I was watching a Knicks game. My mom kind of turns to me. She's like, oh, who are those guys running out onto the court after athlete got injured? And I was like, oh, I'm not sure. And that's what kind of sparked the curiosity from there. Once I found out it was like athletic trainers, like sports medicine doctors, physical therapists, I was like, oh, physical therapy sounds interesting. I want to look into that. And essentially that kind of led me down the path that I ended up taking. 

Initially, I had started as a strategic conditioning intern at a private facility in my hometown of Astoria, Queens. Got to learn under some great coaches there, got to work with some collegiate and high school baseball players, got to work with some mixed martial artists and then people within the community. So there was definitely a mix of populations which are great to see.

After that, went to Arizona, like you said, had an amazing internship opportunity with EXO Sports Performance, got to learn under some amazing coaches, got to see how high-level athletes train. That was like an enlightening. For me, right? That really kind of opened up my mind to everything. And then once I completed my master's at Arizona State, like you said, I had that opportunity with the Air Force where I got to dive a little bit more into like the sports science, the research component behind everything in in sports performance and with a completely different type of population. Like I wasn't expecting to work with the Air Force after my master's, but the opportunity presented itself and I was like, I'm not going to let that go. 

So yeah, I went with that. And then after about three years with the Air Force, I was like, all right, you know what? It's time. I've always wanted to be a PT. I really wanted to, you know, hone myself in with the sports performance aspect because I do want to be a sports physical therapist. But it, it got down to the point where I was like, all right, you know, it's time to final, finalize the degrees and complete the complete like what I was doing at the US Air Force and, and begin everything now.

SG: So was this. So that, that's fascinating. And what an opportunity to work with, you know, first of all the elite athletes there, but also the, the fighter pilots whole different level. But to be part of such a team that looked at every aspect of humor performance, I would think great foundation for, for physical therapy, but also a great foundation for a, a business in, in, in, in sports, athletic equipment. 
But OK, so now when you're out there, did the did, did you know number one, you wanted to start a business and number two what was this the original business concept or did were you kicking around other things or was this still not even on your radar at this point in time?

SS: So I would say initially, I never really thought I would start a business like this. This was not the initial concept. The initial concept was like customized basketball sneakers to like the shape and demand of your athletic needs. And at the time I didn't have a great name, didn't have a great logo, wasn't as cool as this one. The idea was really half baked, and I had actually pitched the idea at Arizona State. They do this like Venture Devils competition. It's fascinating. You get to see all these different students and, like, alumni compete and, you know, kind of just share their ideas where they're currently at with their business journey. And this was my first time doing anything like this. And I got shot down with that basketball idea, right? But when I got my feedback, I was like, OK, you know, I still think that there's some value here. I've bit off more than I can chew. Let me go back to the drawing board. Let me figure some things out. 

And at that point I had started to think to myself, like, OK, what am I most comfortable with? What environment am I always in, I'm always within the gym. I'm, you know, I'm training people right now, I'm training athletes. So why not start with a training sneaker? So when I started looking into the training space, I started looking at, you know, the different sneakers from major brands. And then I started looking at barefoot shoes and I, I was like, oh, this is interesting. I've never seen this before and started wearing them. Love the feel of them. Didn't like the look because I've always been a sneaker head. So like, you know, the design aspect of sneakers really always kind of sticks out to me. But didn't like the look, love the feel. And I was like, OK, there, there's something here that I can do. I used to draw sneakers. I used to draw comic books and stuff like that. And I was like, all right, maybe maybe I can do something here. I can kind of be, I can kind of operate in the gray space in between like what major brands do, where they have like all the cool tech and designs and everything like that, but they don't really focus on function or the natural shape of your foot. And then I can, you know, kind of be on the middle of what those barefoot companies do where it's like they're a little bit dogmatic, like all barefoot is the only way you can only do it this way. You know, there, there has to be a gray area in between where I can use both that natural shape of the foot and the, the tech that's coming from the big brands and kind of merge them together. And that's how symbol kind of kind of came up.

SG: I could see, it's funny because I loved when we were talking before and you were telling me about, you know, as a little kid, you'd be sketching at the table and you'd be sketching sneakers and all this stuff. And I, I thought, number one, that's awesome. And now to think that you produced a shoe is pretty incredible. But I'm also picturing like, if you're kind of like, if you're drawing things and you want cool sneakers and then you're obviously attracted towards basketball shoes and things like that, like the look of those barefoot shoes, like you never drew anything like that. And there's a reason you didn't draw anything like that. You know what I mean? Because you're not that appealing to again, to someone. I think I'm more aligned with your version of shoes. But I think what you, what I think is great about your concept is you're right, it kind of does blend the 2.

So let's, I think your shoes are beautiful. So let's show the shoes, show the group and then talk, talk about it, because if, yeah, no, they, they look great. I do love the logo as well. So tell us about it, because if I just looked at that shoe and again, it's I'm, it's, you know, I it's not tactile. I'm not I don't have it on my foot, but it it to me that looks like an athletic performance shoe at some level, right. But I know it's not, it's, you know, it's a it's a hybrid between the barefoot and it's. But to walk us through kind of the technology, and how this is a different how this truly.

SS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I mean, the First things first, like the, the difference that you can kind of see from the jump is it does still have that like natural shape of the foot, but then you see these little ridges out on the side. And this is where this like barefoot trainer starts to act like a basketball sneaker or a tennis sneaker, because what it will allow you to do, it allows you to get that lateral movement without losing the structural integrity of the shoe. Whereas a lot of barefoot shoes, if you were to go and do any lateral movement with them, it almost feels like you're rolling in your sock. The outsole is too thin. It's too, too flexible. I mean, I understand that that's the main premise behind barefoot shoes, that it needs to remain flexible and everything. But when you start to lose structural integrity while you're doing like lateral movement or change of direction or agility work, then you start to lose confidence in that shoe. You start to feel uncomfortable going through that movement. That's how I felt when I was wearing those shoes and I was doing any agility drills or change of direction drills, even pyrometric drills. I was like, I feel like I need something a little bit more sturdy, but at the same time, I still do love that barefoot feel. 

I still do love that, like that flexibility component, but I don't like the fact that it feels like a sock with like just a really thin rubber sole on the bottom. So that's why I kind of created these to have that heel counter in the back to lock you in, to have that lateral and medial component of the sneaker to basically help you with any change of direction work, any lateral work. So yeah. And the, the design was patented as the first outsole to have such a feature, as well as like a rope climbing feature on the inside of the shoe. You know, just in case you're doing any CrossFit or anything like that, you had a little bit of assistance, a little bit of grip with the shoe.

SG: Well, I remember you were telling me that, you know, when you, when you were like, you'd wear barefoot shoes, but then, you know, you would literally have to switch out the shoes anytime you would just, you know, change your mode of activity. And so, you know, the, the, you know, having something that meets both criteria is, does seem really unique. I, I personally have never seen anything like that on the market. Do you, do you tell us about the competitive landscape in terms of is there something like this on the market, are you truly filling this unique niche?

SS: Yeah, absolutely. To my knowledge, I don't know of any other company that's really doing something similar to what we're doing because essentially we're not a barefoot sneaker company. We're more of like, excuse me, we're more of like a natural foot shaped company, if you will. And essentially the way I think of it is we're, we're like a health solutions company. We're trying to, we're trying to find problems within industry and basically provide some sort of a solution, whether it be footwear or you know, gym equipment, anything like that. But to my knowledge, in terms of other companies that are doing what we're doing, I don't think that any other company has a barefoot type of training sneaker that still allows you to perform at a higher level of training. I, I haven't seen that.

I've seen other companies that, you know, you'll, that, that create some shoes that you'll feel comfortable squatting in or that you'll feel comfortable doing more like, you know, sagittal plane linear movement. But once you kind of go into that frontal plane, it's like this shoe is just ready to twist and like almost like slide off your foot. I haven't seen something as sturdy as ours.

SG: OK, wonderful. OK, so here. So here's the thing that you've got to walk us through. Now look, like when I started, I wrote a book, OK, I have a computer and I can type like, I'm OK, like, you know, these, these, you know? So my point is businesses range in complexity from like pretty basic to at least get started. Or maybe barriers of entry is the right term. You picked a business where the barrier to entry is as high as anyone I've interviewed higher than anyone I've interviewed.

So I mean, walk us through the process. Like how do you even figure out like you didn't just carve up that shoe in you're a woodworking office, you know, or whatever. I mean, like, like, how does this happen? How did you get this? How did how did you work on design? How did you get prototype? How did you do CAD cams that like tell us? I mean, how did how did this even happen?

SS: Yeah, for sure. And honestly, I never really thought of the how daunting the challenge was. But as you know, people kind of bring it up to me and kind of just, you know, tell me like, you know, that's kind of crazy. I'm like, yeah, it is. But it bring the smile on my face. So, you know, I, I I'll take that challenge.

So essentially the way I started was like I was saying, before I had some ability to kind of sketch, right, had a little bit of ability to draw. So put it down on paper first. Actually put it down on a white board in my gym first and then, you know, kind of dove into the research on footwear. Really wanted to determine like, OK, it like I really wanted to justify why major brands were creating narrow toe boxes and this and that. And couldn't really find, like, hard evidence as to why they did it other than when I started talking to manufacturers and they were saying, oh, it looks prettier. And I was like, is that it? And they're like, it just looks prettier. So I was like, OK, well, we don't really care too much about how pretty the shoe looks. You can make the shoe look pretty if you still have it in the natural shape of the foot.

So it started from a sketch. From the sketch, I actually used a lot of freelance work, went to Fiverr, went to Upwork, hired some, hired some designers to like really professionalize the sketches. And then after like a couple of comments, like very specific comments on my end. Because if you have a vision and you're working with a freelancer, you want to be as specific as possible. Otherwise they're just going to kind of be like, hey, I'm done, OK, pay me. Like let's keep it moving. But yeah, they. So I would provide any revisions necessary for the sketches. 

From the sketches we went on to a technical package and the technical package is basically a super specific sketch that gets down to the millimeter on how the design of the shoe, how the build of the shoe is actually going to look. And I found an amazing person on Fiverr that's been helping me with the, with the symbol trainer ones for about like 2 years. He, you know, we kind of bounced ideas back and forth a whole bunch. He broke everything down to the build on how the tongue needed to be built out, where the logo needed to be, how long the logo needed to be. Once I had the technical package, I also did an extra step and went and got like a 3D rendering, got a CAD model like you were saying, had that colorized with looking at it from that aspect. And I was like, OK, that looks really good. I would definitely wear this shoe. That's when we really started to get a little bit more excited because we're like, it's 3D now. It's off of 2D, it's not on paper. So that got that got really, yeah, that got that got really exciting for us. 

And then once we kind of had the whole, the blueprint, for example, we were like, OK, we need to find a manufacturer. Took us a really long time to find a good manufacturer. 

SG: How do you even go about that? Like I don't think you do that through Upwork of Fiverr, do you? Right?

SS: No, you don't. And I was, and I was asking one of my guys on Fiverr and he was just like, hey, you know, I could talk with this person. I could talk with that person. He tried, he tried to like put me in contact. I would try to call like places in Indonesia, places overseas. A lot of places wouldn't respond. I would e-mail, so I would go on Alibaba and that's where things kind of got hectic where as soon as I went on Alibaba, a lot of companies started getting back to me and they were showing me all these different products and I was like, like, this just doesn't feel right. It doesn't seem like they want to do what I'm looking for because I would tell them, hey, I need a customized last. A last is like the piece of the, the mold that you use for the inside of the shoe to create a shape.

And I was like this, this doesn't feel right because they all didn't want to do the customized glass to make it foot shape. They were like, oh, just do that later. We can start with like the conventional footwear shape and then just for just for the samples and then we go from there. And I was like, no, like, I need to see this as like it like in a natural foot shape. Otherwise, like I'm not doing it.

So after like I would say maybe nine months of searching, I was, I finally found a company, they're called My Sample Factory and they're based out in in China and there were absolutely amazing from the jump. I told them exactly what I needed. I kind of gotten down to the point where I was like, I need this, this, this, this. And if you're not going to meet those, like we're just going to move on and try to find somebody else. But they told me right away they were like, absolutely, we can meet that. Like we have no problem doing that. And I was like, all right, great.

So from there, they had signed basically an NDA, also known as like a NNN, which is a non-compete non…I can't remember off the top of my head right now, but we can Google it later. But yeah, so they had signed that. And then once I was once I kind of protected, I had shared all, you know, my intellectual properties with them, all the designs, all the tech packages. And then it was just constant meetings from there.

SG: Did you did you have a buyer's agent? Did you have a buyer's agent or did you have legal representation? And when it came to, you know, signing these contracts, the NDA.

SS: I did have legal representation, I did not have a buyer's vision. I’m not quite sure what that is actually.

SG: Sometimes they're the intermediary between, you know, often times Chinese manufacturing and so they, they actually have folks that will be on site that'll go check out things, you know, in China, like, you know, the monitor the production of the of the product to some extent. Because obviously, in some cases, once you start to get into these large quantities, there has to be some quality control before they end up with you six months later and you find out that's not what I was talking to you. You know what I mean? It can get a little gray or corners can be cut. They're kind of working on your behalf to ensure quality control.

SS: Got you. Got you. Yeah. OK, that does ring a bell. I have talked to someone like that in the past, but thank goodness, you know, didn't need it based on the end product, probably. Of course, we'll need it in the future as we continue along and we start to create that mass order and start to mass produce. 

SG: So they generated a number of prototypes for you, one of which you're or a couple of which you're holding now. Is that what happened?

SS: So essentially what they did was they used some like lesser materials at the beginning to start creating the samples just to see how they would build out the shoe. Like they didn't use like a full rubberized like this is full rubber now. They didn't use like a full rubberized outsole at the beginning. They like used, they used silicone. The mesh on the top wasn't as nice as this mesh. The TPU film that we have, like the film that kind of wraps around the shoe wasn't the same as this one. This one's a little bit more durable, didn't have a logo on the beginning. It was a sticker. 

So like things like that where, you know, they just wanted to basically understand how the shoe needed to be built if it met my expectations. And then once everything met my expectations, once the fit felt felt proper, that was like a big component because like the first few iterations of the sample, the fit didn't feel right. And I was like, hey, we need to fix this. And that took a couple of meetings that took a couple of like different outsole iterations. And then finally, you know, within the last sample that we that we had received through that, you know, put that on. And I was like, Oh, this is exactly what I was waiting for. Like, you know, when you put on a good pair of shoes and just like, yes, this is perfect. Take my money, you got it.

SG: So, OK, so where are we at now as far as this goes?

SS: Yeah, right now we are basically preparing for our launch. We're building the rocket ship. We're doing all the back, like behind the scenes photography. We're doing all the videography right now. We're preparing our website. We're starting to build up our Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign. We're aiming for a summer launch. We essentially, you know, we need to go through and use ads and start to market ourselves on social media a lot more. 

But yeah, that's where we're currently at right now. So it's a pretty exciting time because it's like we're really building off to like building up to go into that launch. And I don't know what to expect. But you know, I'm doing everything that I can to just demonstrate that I'm trying to come out with a product that is actually helpful. And that, you know, if I saw this in the store as somebody who's trained, as somebody who loves sports, as somebody who loves a good-looking shoe, I'd be like, oh, that's pretty cool. You know, try it on. Feels great, you know, take my money let's go.

SG: Yeah no, I think you've met a lot of those criteria. So all right, so you've mentioned all these things right. You know, videography, photography, social media website. What kind of team are we working with and how do you how do you find these people? What kind of skills did you bring to the table previously in relation to this? Because I'm sure a lot of this year bootstrapping, I will ask you about the money piece of it as well. You know, how, how do you fund it an endeavor like this? But let's start with the team. Or is there a team?

SS: There's a really, really, really small team. It's a team of three. Yeah, it's me, my wife, who is a CPA. She really handles a lot of the financials behind everything. And then one of my best friends, he, he he's like a sales expert and like an operations expert. So we kind of have him as our COO. 

You know, we're not none of us are like CEO, COO, CFO at this point. We're still prestart up everything like that. But we do have like some specific roles. But I kind of do take the majority of everything just because, you know, the conception of the idea was mine and I kind of have like the vision for I'm kind of the creative. So yeah. But outside of that, I do have a few people that are helping me. I did hire a photographer, videographer to help me with everything. He's great. He also is from my, he’s from Queens, NY. So we kind of have that connection.

And then we are working with a very interesting company called Launch Boom that is a crowdfunding campaign manager. They basically assist us throughout the entire process of actually building up to our launch. They go through educational material. They have weekly meetings that you can attend where you can go over your next steps, what you plan to do, what they want us to do, what we shouldn't do. And then they even go over like any data that you're getting from your ads or from orders or what's worked. Like again, what which ads are working, which ads are not working. So they do like all the A to B testing. So yeah, that's another portion of our team. But that's a little temporary because after our launch, you know, we kind of have to figure out what we're going to go with.

SG: But it's nice in these cases where you can, you know, you mentioned that group that's just, you know, going through that the testing for use, you know, getting analytics because I mean, again, you can only learn so much on your own. 

And you mentioned Upwork and Fiverr before and for those that aren't familiar with that, we, we use that. We use that a lot at Scorebuilders. And once we were acquired by Colibri, Colibri uses Upwork a great deal. But what it is, is it's basically just this massive pool of talent where you put out whatever it is you need, where in Sofo's case it was, you know, I, I need design, I need, you know, 3D renderings, I need CAD, whatever.  You know, for us it might have been we need animators or we need videographers or whatever it is. And you just put out a contract. You, you can keep it open or you can set a price and you interview people and, and you pay a percentage to these companies of, of your total spend, which is very reasonable. But it allows you, instead of taking on full time employees or even part time employees, it allows you to sample talent anywhere. 
We have an animator from Brazil we've worked with for over 10 years now. He's absolutely incredible and, and you know, much more affordable than animators, you know, within our local region, which, you know, again, you know, we'd like to do things within the United States, but at the same time we, you know, we have to, you know, we don't have an abundance of cash flow. And so we, you know, and I'm sure as a start up. I mean, we were a start up at one time as well and we had to, we had to be mindful of that.

So what's the time frame on this from the, from kind of the when you started getting like you had sketches, you started getting renderings to where we are now. How much I know this is a, this is a long process. How much time has elapsed?

SS: So the idea began in 2018, but we legitimized the company, we made the company real in 2021. Like that's when Symbol got trademarked, everything like that. So from there, yeah, it's been, it's been some time. But you know.

SG: Well, the complexity demands that kind of time. Like there's no quick absolutely producing shoes. 

SS: No, no question. And you know, I'm, I have no idea on the side of the forward industry. I'm learning as I'm going my professional background is within physical therapy and sports performance. So it's definitely something that I'm kind of learning as I go. But yeah, it's, it's definitely taking some time, but you know, I would rather have something that I create down pat to exactly what I was shooting for rather than just trying to rush something out of there. I understand, like speed and urgency is definitely a major component and I try to work within that. But you know, the devil's in the details as well.

SS: Well, the good news is you've been you. My understanding is you didn't have to go out and get external funding. You've, you've tried to do this as inexpensively as possible. So you don't have major investors who are breathing down your neck like this needs to get out. It needs, you know what I mean? You're, you're still, you're, you're in control of this ship. And, and so that's good. I mean, the, the slow and steady course, right, often wins the race. 

I, I got to be honest, though, I think about this and I just get anxious because I'm thinking like, OK, how do you know what sizes you need? How do you know how many of, of each size to order? How can you anticipate demand? What kind of lead time are you going to have to do from placing your order to getting these shoes back, you know, from being produced in China, like almost all footwear is? What about some of what about some of those things? What, what kind of time do you think we're looking at?

SS: Yeah, so actually that's a great question. And we, we have like 2 routes that we're kind of going for, for that. The first one is, is that we have a predetermined amount of production that we're going to do for each size, right. So we looked into the research, what the average, you know, size was within the US, you know what the standard like 1 standard deviation, 2 standard deviations away from that, but kind of ranges between like a size 9 to a size 11. And then for women, I believe it's like between a size 6 to 8.

So if we were to go that route, essentially what we do is we would probably make more shoes in those sizes and then start to lessen the amount of production as we start to go into the smaller and bigger sizes, right?

The second option is, is through our Kickstarter campaign, if you do pre-order the shoes and you put down your size, essentially as soon as we have your size down, it kind of just determines the frequency of what the build is, how much production we need for that size. And then we can go right to our manufacturer and say, hey, you know, we got 10 orders of a size 10, so that we got three orders of a size 12, so we need that. And then so on and so forth. 

SG: Do you have a sense of the quantities you're gonna need to need to order to make it affordable? The unit cost?

SS: Yeah. So our unit cost is actually isn't pretty bad right now.

SG: Even at lower quantities.

SS: Yeah, even at lower quantities.

SG: I'm not asking specific, just to be clear. I'm not asking.

SS: It is like relatively higher compared to what I've heard in the industry with massive orders who do like, you know, 20 million orders or something like that of 1 shoe like that is a very low MOQ. For us being that we might do like couple of thousand, it's definitely, yeah, it's definitely a little bit more reasonable, but no, yeah.

SG:  And what about time? Production time?

SS: Yeah. So production time that I am not fully aware of as of right now. We have had like preliminary discussions with our manufacturer about that and they said that I believe if we do about 1000 to 1500 pairs, it could take to a month and 1/2 or two months to fulfill.

SG: That's good.

SS: Yeah. So I was kind of, yeah, I, I was pretty, I was pretty amped to hear that as well. But you know, you hear that and then something comes along, could be some issues and so on and so forth that, you know, there's always some sort of a speed bump. That's one thing I've learned in business. There's always something that is going to come up and you got to just find the solution and kind of keep moving from there.

SG: Well you’re still smiling, that’s positive. All right. So look, I think there are going to be a lot of student physical therapists who listen to this and PTAs that would like to get a pair of these shoes. And I know, I know it's so kind of early, but but we're taping the show and it'll be a few months before this actually runs. And by that point, you know, the crowdfunding might be formalized.

So what we'll do is we'll definitely put the relevant information within the show notes, you know, whatever that ends up being in order to get involved in the, you know, the, the early, the, the crowdsourcing or crowdfunding, whatever, whichever term you're using. But do you have a, do you have a sense of what that, what that might look like in terms of the process? I mean, if someone's ordering, they're gonna have to be flexible to some extent, right? They're gonna know that this is in process. We can't be incredibly precise, but we're offering you a unique opportunity to get in at the ground level at a good price.

SS: Yeah. So essentially what we're going to do is we're going to keep every everybody updated through our social media on Instagram, on TikTok, on YouTube. So on Instagram, we're @symbol.win we'll keep every we'll continue to provide updates behind the scenes looks and, you know, provide videos of, you know, how to perform in the shoes, what they do, etcetera.

But again, you can go on our Instagram page or you can go on our website, www.symbol.win and from there it would automatically direct you to our Kickstarter campaign. And that's where you can actually reserve and lock down your pair for either $1.00 or $5 up until, you know, launch day. So if you pay that $1.00, you know your information is saved. Everything is like that. It, it becomes really easy to just go ahead and check out right when you're right, when the launch is under way and it kind of just makes the process a lot easier. It shows that you're committed and it allows us to on the back end market even more. So that's the process that we're kind of going with right now.

I think it's a pretty smart process. My crowdfunding campaign managers Launch Boom. They kind of gave us the idea to kind of go about it that way and kind of create that funnel through our website, through our social media. So yeah, that's it's, it's all going to come through pre-orders at the beginning. And then we're going to do everything that we possibly can to fulfill those orders and get those shoes to you. Because I, I want people to wear these to be able to experience what I experienced with them, you know?

SG: Can you imagine the first time you see these organically on someone's feet, like walking, like walking through a neighborhood or downtown, right? It's got to be like an, an artist who hears their song on the radio for the first time, right? I mean, it's, yeah, that's, I'm getting fired up just thinking about that.

SS: I'm getting fired up too. I, I've never considered that.

SG: So I thought of that right away. And I will be on that pre-order list now. How have you stayed so energized throughout this process? I know you, I, I'm not sure if it's your significant other or wife. I know you mentioned she was an accountant. I think she just passed a big exam, right? 

SS: Yeah she just completed her CPA exam. 

SG: That's fantastic. So I would imagine she's been a pretty wonderful source throughout this long period. But how else have you managed to go through PT school, have the rigors of PT school and, and still been able to, to balance this business? I, I'm not sure how that was done.

SS: I'm still not sure how I'm doing, honestly. It's definitely a challenge. It's definitely risky, but you know, what are you going to do in life if you're not going to jump at challenges and try to attack them, right? Like if I get challenged with something, it kind of just puts a smile on my face. I'm like, yeah, let's get after it. Like, let's see if I can do this. So I do everything I can. I've really kind of learned how to manage my time, how to prioritize really important things that need to get done, need to get reviewed, need to get like practical experience with. Because of course, you know, within physical therapy school, you're not just in a textbook, but you're actually practicing and you're getting tested with practical exams.

So yeah, I mean, it's all about time management at the end of the day for me. I have a long commute as well, which doesn't really help. But I try to listen to podcasts. I try to listen to lectures from class. Like I record my lectures and I'll listen to, I listen to them on the road, going to school, on the road, coming back home. So yeah, that's, that's really how I've been able to do this. And then on top of that, like a lot of the meetings that I have when it comes to Symbol and working with the manufacturers or working with any of the other team members, Launch Boom, etcetera. It's just been helpful that, you know, the time zones or the timing of meetings has always been when I'm not in class. So that's been extremely helpful. And you know, I'm a, I'm a good communicator. Like if I need to get an answer for something or anything like that, I have no problem reaching out and just being as specific as I can. You know, we're in the age of technology. If you need to communicate, just get it done, you know, RIP the Band-Aid off, reach out, get your answers, take the next steps from there.

SG: That's great. You know, and the time zone thing may work for meetings, but it probably doesn't work for your sleep cycle if you are sleepy. Just it's just to be clear on that. But but no, you're right. Yeah, I like to rip the Band-Aid off, right. I mean, you, you know, you can't run a business or especially of this magnitude of complexity and be passive or wait for people to come to you. You got to be knocking down doors. You got to be, you know, holding people accountable and going through the process. And and you've obviously been fantastic at that.

So I'm curious, you're coming to the end of your PT program here. What does the future look like and how do you plan to balance clinical practice and or you know, obviously continue to run the business?

SS: Yeah. So immediately after I graduate from NYIT, I really want to go for a sports residency. I kind of want to fast track my, my, my pace or I want, I want to fast track getting the SCS certification, Sports Certified Specialist certification. I have the background within sports. I've been within sports for the majority of my career and I'm a little older than your typical student, like you said. So I don't want to go through three years of working within a sports physical therapy practice to obtain that. So that's one of my goals after PT school.

And then from there, you know, just try to help as many athletes and patients as possible after the sports residency, whether cause I understand that some sports residency they, you know, have you with a contract, you work with them for two to three years or something like that after you complete it. So that's my goal right when I'm done. 

And then, you know, the dream job is to work with some professional organization. My background is within basketball, so I would love to be within a professional MBA organization as a physical therapist or kind of like double roll physical therapist, sports performance coach, physical therapist, sports scientist. That's like the professional side of everything. 

But I think that, you know, when it comes to symbol, my career within physical therapy and what I'm doing with symbol kind of go hand in hand and I can juggle it a little bit and as this grows. What I can do is I can build up a team that I can depend on kind of delineate some, some things too. And if anything ever does need to kind of come to me, like I can always take the time, like after I'm done working with my patients or I working with my athletes to, to, you know, solve whatever needs to be solved at that, at that time. That's, that's, that's my goal right after PT school.

SG: Well, I think it's reasonable because I mean, now you're juggling 2 massive, you know, different projects, meaning school and, and Symbol, and you've done that effectively and you've obviously built the time management skills to be able to do that. So, and you have support at home, which is, which is obviously critical as well. And I can imagine if you're working with a sports team, hopefully a professional sports team, I know that off the court they will all be wearing Symbol shoes, which would also be a pretty cool thing.

OK, so final question, you know, look, you've learned a ton on this journey. And one of the things I like about is regardless what happens with Symbol, and I love the concept. I'm very optimistic about it. But you've developed so many skills that are so transferable to well, first of all, some, many of them are life skills, but also many are business skills. And so, you know, and a lot of people also are serial entrepreneurs. So I'm not suggesting you start another project, but I'm just saying that like what you've gained along this journey obviously has been necessary for your business, but it's just a launching pad for whatever you do the entire rest of your career. So, you know, your defining moment may be symbol, it may be something else, or it may be a whole lot of things. But I think it's this is time well spent, I guess is what I feel.

But what advice would you have for, you know, a lot of our listeners, I assume are students who are, you know, in between studying for exams or they're just thinking about the future or they're looking at their student loan debt and they're thinking, I've, you know, I've got to have a side hustle or I'm, I've just wanted be my own boss one day or whatever. What what have you? What could you pass on for 'cause I think you're a pretty inspirational guy. What, what could you pass on that might be useful for someone to get them going in the right direction?

SS: Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. I'm going to try not to make this cliche, but in my experience, I kind of took my professional, my professional career and I took a passion within footwear and drawing and I kind of figured out how to merge the two. And that's what really led to my purpose. Like, you know, use your professional expertise, use what you're passionate with, try to figure out a way to merge them and somehow an idea will be born. And from that idea, you will really be driven. That's really the best thing that I can kind of give. I hope it's not cliche or anything like that, but it really is kind of something that that I kind of live by. 

Like when I got started with everything with Symbol. And the thing that really kept me going was the fact that I knew that the road was going to be harder as I kept going, but I was going to learn more along the way. I was going to learn more within my career. I was going to learn more about the business aspect of everything about the footwear industry. So just the fact that I can kind of merge those two like together, it gets me really excited. It, you know, keeps me energized, keeps me smiling. It, it really keeps me just, you know, kind of going head first into the challenge. And I don't mind it. Like I don't mind the, the challenges. I don't mind the speed bumps. I don't mind the unknown, you know, where you kind of just don't know what's going to happen next. It's, it's this like resistance that you're kind of pushing through. But if you're using your passion and you're using your, your, your brain behind it and what you're doing within your profession, I really think that you could create something special out of that.

SG: Yeah. That was, that was beautiful. And yeah, I mean, your, your enthusiasm and happiness are, are literally palpable. I, I wish I always handled stress and, you know, some of these challenges maybe as smoothly as I'm guessing that you do. But anyways, no, those are great, great life lessons. And if you can't combine passion with, you know, with a pursuit, regardless of how hard the endeavor is or the amount of hours spent, I, I don't think anyone ever regrets those things. I really don't. But again, you've got to harness both of those things. And, and you are very fortunate in terms of, and much of that was self-created, but you identified something you were truly passionate about and you happen to be learning a ton about business and physical therapy at the same time. And like you said, those are, those are complimentary subject matter. 

So, but thanks. I really appreciate you joining us today.

SS: I appreciate it as well.

SG: People are going to be fired up about this and, and, and, and I'm truly excited to get my own pair. And I'm also very I I'm, I'm not going to say I'm going to be as excited as you are, but I'm going to be pretty fired up. But I know your level of fired up is going when you see one of these you, you what pair of your shoes walking down the street, is this going to be off the charts. And I and I'll just be so happy.

SS: I'm going to remember as it happens. I'm going to be, like Scott said.

SG: You'll remember that first moment when you see those shoes.

SS: For sure. Thank you so much. This was such an amazing experience. You know, you're such an easy person to talk to as well. So thank you.

SG: Thank you take care and continuef success.

SS: All right, have a good one.

Voiceover: And there you have it. Another dose of PT-preneurial inspiration to fuel your journey. Check out more inspiring stories from PTs and PTAs out there making waves by listening and subscribing to our podcasts on your favorite streaming platforms. And don't forget to rate and review this podcast. Thanks for listening.